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Customer takes Bell to court and wins

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Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#51

Post by ballenf »

deepsun wrote: post #5
TallGuyShort wrote: post #4

>> In a move that was pivotal to his legal case, he requested a transcript of the call I take advantage of the fact that the companies who seem to be the most frustrating to deal with, are courteous enough to begin each phone call stating that "calls may be recorded." I have a call recording app on my phone and on at least 3 occasions I have had a company immediately escalate a phone call to a person who immediately…

What app is that? I've found that none of Play Store apps can record the other party, only my own voice.

There are universal apps that route a call through a data center that records the call for you. Don't remember the names but they work on iOS as well as Android.

Monthly or usage fees for use. And you don't even need the app -- can use a web interface as well. But I would guess you have to originate the call.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#52

Post by ballenf »

btilly wrote: post #39
sshanky wrote: post #3

I wonder (not really) how this would go down in the US.

Possibly the same way. Both countries have the same common law traditions. But I'm surprised that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_frauds did not come into play. This was a well-documented verbal contract, but still it was a verbal contract for 24 months. Which is more than a year, and therefore is more than a verbal contract should be able to cover.

That is why the comment that it would be memorialized in writing was important to the case. The idea being that the writing was enough confirmation of the existence of the verbal contract, irregardless that it contradicted a key point. The key point (no price increases) was confirmed to be part of the verbal contract by the transcript.

In essence you have satisfied SOF by the email and satisfied meeting of the minds on key contractual points (term, price, level of service) through the transcript.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#53

Post by ballenf »

tacon wrote: post #18

After referring to the "verbal" contract for most of the article, it finally gets to the "oral" contract. All contracts are verbal; some are oral. Only a few contracts must be written, such as those under the "statute of frauds", e.g. real estate contracts.

Even when falling under SOF, the entire contract need not be in writing. Only confirmation of the existence of the contract need be in writing provided that the verbally agreed terms can be verified (here through the transcript).

For practical purposes, the entire contract usually is in writing.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#54

Post by NoB4Mouth »

A tip for fellow Americans here on HN. What are you waiting for to take FB to court over Cambridge Analytica scandal? Believe it will be more successful than that Show Zuck and Congressmen made last time... Remember some of the Congressmen may surely be on "his" payroll via Mme Sandberg political lobbying endeavors...

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#55

Post by kevin_b_er »

sshanky wrote: post #3

I wonder (not really) how this would go down in the US.

A non-starter. The US company would have mandatory binding arbitration with a no class action clause in the contract noone pays attention to when they get the service. The arbitration details are secret. You would never know what others have attempted in the same argument against a similar US company. US company would, of course, know all the past attempts against them and know best how to argue.

As the arbiters may be blacklisted by the US company for ruling against them, they tend to bias to ones that favor the corporation against the human being.

In Corporate Ruled America, he'd have never received his "day in court". You do not get to use courts of law against a corporation in the US.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#56

Post by smnrchrds »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #33
mcherm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a good reason for that -- as long as legislatures keep making it ILLEGAL to use such a feature, can you really blame Apple for not wanting to offer it?

It's not illegal federally or in any of the 38 single-party consent states, as long as the person recording is a member of the conversation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Unite...

And the entire Canada, where the story is taking place, is single-party consent.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#57

Post by grizzles »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #4

>> In a move that was pivotal to his legal case, he requested a transcript of the call I take advantage of the fact that the companies who seem to be the most frustrating to deal with, are courteous enough to begin each phone call stating that "calls may be recorded." I have a call recording app on my phone and on at least 3 occasions I have had a company immediately escalate a phone call to a person who immediately…

What phone / app do you use? I've wanted this feature since forever. I just tried installing a few high rated android apps on my new android phone and so far nothing records my counterparts side of the conversation.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#58

Post by deathanatos »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #26
rdiddly wrote: post #25

"Before they got to court, Bell offered Ramsay money to drop the case — $300, roughly the amount Ramsay estimated the telecom would be over-billing him for two years. He declined." HA! "Three weeks before the court date, Bell contacted Ramsay again. He was offered $1,000 to settle, but was required to sign a confidentiality agreement. Again, Ramsay declined." Wow, big spenders! They'll spare no expense! They'll stop…

> They'll stop at nothing! Would they have gone as high as $1,010? $1,050?!?! The judgment against them was $1,110; how high do you think they should have gone with the settlement offer?

The second offer included a "confidentiality agreement", which I would associate a large negative value with, personally. So the court's judgement was significantly higher than what the company wanted to settle for.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#59

Post by UseStrict »

lechiffre10 wrote: post #2

All crooks. As a Canadian, it's a shame that so many choose to just accept circumstances regarding Telecoms and other companies. We get royally screwed and no one seems to care. I'm so glad I decided to cut my contract with my phone company two years ago.

And the big 3 keep pushing. All pushing up fees for internet, cable, etc in lockstep. Lying on contracts, using misleading advertising for initial terms, not following guidelines or laws. None of them offering truly competitive rates. The agencies that are meant to handle complaints and regulations do so half-heartedly. It's bad when my phone bill dominates my monthly expenses, second only to rent.

Re: Customer takes Bell to court and wins

#60

Post by thaumasiotes »

deathanatos wrote: post #58
thaumasiotes wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'll stop at nothing! Would they have gone as high as $1,010? $1,050?!?! The judgment against them was $1,110; how high do you think they should have gone with the settlement offer?

The second offer included a "confidentiality agreement", which I would associate a large negative value with, personally. So the court's judgement was significantly higher than what the company wanted to settle for.

That's fair.
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