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YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

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Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Several hundred dollars" heh. These deals are worth at least 5 digits, sometimes 6.

From the article: *"Channels with tens of thousands of subscribers can be offered hundreds of dollars for each advert." Where do you get the 10's of thousands of dollars figure from?

Tens of thousands of subscribers isn't very many.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#92
post #15
post #2

As a former University Librarian and Residents Director A) Cheating happens more then it doesn't. In a Philosophy Class which had a dozen seniors all cheated in Spring Semester. Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled. President Graduated the students and fired the professor. Then on appeal the President was fired and the Professor rehired with a raise. B) Sh…

>cheating hurts everyone. Not the paper writers and some of the students who can benefit from it.

One of the basic foundations of economics is competitive advantage. No one makes everything themselves, they defer to specialists. I don't see why writing papers should be any different, considering most of the work is not about technical competence, it's about proper formatting and writing skills.

If scientists could spend all their time performing experiments, statisticians did all the statistics, and technical writers did all the writing, the replication crisis might not be as bad as it is and everyone wins.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your approach to reasoning is bad. You're trying to apply a construct from formal logic and apply it to situations that defy description in formal logic. You can't reduce aesthetic and emotional responses into syllogism.

Often, the nuances of the real world defy simple syllogistic reasoning. This isn't one of those times.

Prove it. "Cheating" seems to have huge downsides, on the other hand it reduces friction inside of a rigid system. That is a net positive that stealing a TV from best buy simply does not have.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: *"Channels with tens of thousands of subscribers can be offered hundreds of dollars for each advert." Where do you get the 10's of thousands of dollars figure from?

Tens of thousands of subscribers isn't very many.

"According to The Economist, influencers with at least 100,000 subscribers on YouTube can get an average of $12,500 for a sponsored post, with payments going up rapidly if you have one million subscribers or more. But those figures refer to endorsements by people who are celebrities in their own right. Someone who's only well known on YouTube might not command that kind of pay."

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/even-youtube-stars-with-14-...

Suggests you can get low five figures for an endorsement with 100,000 viewers.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#95
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) Cheating hurts everyone. > is nothing compared to the massive grade inflation one sees at top universities in the US B) Because student at top universities (For the most part) have higher GPA in high school and a higher SAT scores already. Unless your morals require a strict bell curve of 10% F, 10% A, 40% C and 40% B?

Do you want to be able to identify the best of the best? That's the fundamental question here - if that's a useful thing for society, to have credentials that distinguish beyond "did well in high school," then you don't want grade inflation. And if you don't - you could make a solid case that the extreme ends of those skills may not be that useful in general outside of academia - than do Harvard et al need nearly as…

Identifying the best of the best requires complex statistical methods to remove several different types of bias.

I'd rather give students PRoPS, which is to say "percentile ranking of passing students". But that would require some means to normalize different professors teaching from different curricula, with variations in the capabilities of their students across different classes.

Automatically failing x% of your students every semester is as cruel and pointless as stack ranking. Clearly, if a student can demonstrate a minimum objective level of understanding, independent of the performance of their peers, they should not fail the course. Equally clearly, if a section is full of geniuses with perfect understanding, they should be graded more highly than a section full of normals that can barely get it after intensive study.

If you pile up enough testing data, year after year, it would be theoretically possible to construct a mathematical model to compare with some confidence the student achievement across disparate classes, professors, and institutions, as well as to say definitively who the good and bad professors are, and whether they write difficult or easy exams.

If you get a 100% on Dr. Aardvark's CHEM220 final at Example U., that may put you at PRoPS of 80 for "organic chemistry, milestone one", whereas if you get a 60% score on Dr. Zymurgy's CHEM235 final at Hypothetical Institute, that may actually have a PRoPS of 95 for "organic chemistry, milestone one". Dr. Z's exam was simply written to be impossible, and scored very harshly, while Dr. A's exam was built to be more forgiving, and maybe left out some elements that the Example U. chem faculty prefers to save for later courses.

This will, of course, never happen. Firstly, you would have to get academics to agree on the essential elements of a given subject at a particular checkpoint in a course of study. Secondly, institutions that rely on selective admissions and political connections for prestige would never participate, if there were even a shred of possibility that the objective evidence would show that they do not actually produce the quality of graduates that they would like to claim. Imagine if Ivy Limestone Woodpanels Law cranked out PRoPS for complete J.D. from 30 to 85, and Bigcity Urban Campus Law ranged from 50 to 99. The former is selective and does a lot of networking, but then passes anyone who still knows enough to not embarrass the school in a connected job, whereas the latter takes everyone, presents a huge challenge, and quickly flunks those who can't master the coursework and get hired through sheer merit. Those numbers would be a huge blow to the former's reputation.

Grade inflation is thus a natural by-product of institutions trying to be a "top tier school". It goes right along with publishing in the highest impact journals and wheedling more money out of your alumni. Schools that benefit from institutional prestige want to keep their reputations polished and shiny.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the target of this kind of service are large classes where the professor can't practically get to examine each person's essays and internalize that unique voice. Classes like that also tend to not require a lot of in-class participation, again because it isn't practical to do with a large number of students. As for finding people "skilled in the particular cirriculums," I'm guessing this is meant for som…

> I'm guessing the target of this kind of service are large classes where the professor can't practically get to examine each person's essays and internalize that unique voice. They say they can write your PhD thesis for you. How on earth can that work? You'll have years of intense one-on-one tuition with an expert in the field and they're not going to notice someone wrote the thesis? How are you going to withstand s…

Once they've got your money I doubt they care how your thesis defense went. I'm sure they'll write anything you pay them to.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#97
post #2

As a former University Librarian and Residents Director A) Cheating happens more then it doesn't. In a Philosophy Class which had a dozen seniors all cheated in Spring Semester. Professor flunked them all by giving them an F and told them they were lucky they weren't expelled. President Graduated the students and fired the professor. Then on appeal the President was fired and the Professor rehired with a raise. B) Sh…

As someone that used to write papers for cheaters: it doesn't bother me much, because higher education is already eating itself alive in the US. The impact of a few students paying others to author papers on their behalf is nothing compared to the massive grade inflation one sees at top universities in the US.

You are a terrible person.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#98
post #32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it hurts them too. Have you even done a shitty job? It's soul-destroying. In high school I answered an ad in the paper and ended up doing "charity fundraising" by telephone. It turned out that the charity only got ~15% of the money raised. The people working there were all sleazeballs. I'm sure had I stayed there I would have ended up a sleazeball as well.

Its not a shitty job for some of the right people. I can easily think few possible advantage of this job: - flexible time - potential to earn lot of money - sheer enjoyment of writing - improve one writing skills

All of those points are also true of making a living by (e-)mail fraud, and the first two are true of almost any criminal enterprise.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#99
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Morally this is wrong since cheating hurts everyone in education. Going to slap a big "NOPE" to this bit. It's the school's responsibility to educate and assess students, and therefore it's their job to reduce cheating. IMHO, if it's really easy to cheat on a test (mostly rote memorization), then students SHOULD cheat. It's a bad test and and insanely huge waste of everyone's time and money.

That's like saying "stealing isn't morally wrong - inventory control is retailers' responsibility and therefore it's their job to reduce loss".

I don't think the two are comparable. Cheating on a test doesn't "take" anything of intrinsic value from another person, stealing does. Cheating hurts no one.

You can argue that cheating puts you ahead of students that work in good faith, systemically, though it's still a bit different. Stealing has implied intent of taking something away from someone, cheating doesn't. You're just trying to get better grades.

Re: YouTube Stars Being Paid to Sell Academic Cheating

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the target of this kind of service are large classes where the professor can't practically get to examine each person's essays and internalize that unique voice. Classes like that also tend to not require a lot of in-class participation, again because it isn't practical to do with a large number of students. As for finding people "skilled in the particular cirriculums," I'm guessing this is meant for som…

> I'm guessing the target of this kind of service are large classes where the professor can't practically get to examine each person's essays and internalize that unique voice. They say they can write your PhD thesis for you. How on earth can that work? You'll have years of intense one-on-one tuition with an expert in the field and they're not going to notice someone wrote the thesis? How are you going to withstand s…

They can probably write the PhD thesis required for a degree mill.
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