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California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

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Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#21

Post by Zak »

netheril96 wrote: post #7
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Do companies whose primary employees are programmers also employ contractual programmers? According to my observation, computer technology companies may have contractual workers, but only for other roles.

Yes, absolutely. I've had several clients like that. Usually, the work centers around something that isn't their core business or a technology that their full-time programmers aren't very experienced with. Sometimes it's just a matter of fluctuating workload where hiring another person full-time wouldn't make sense.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#22

Post by Bahamut »

netheril96 wrote: post #7
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Do companies whose primary employees are programmers also employ contractual programmers? According to my observation, computer technology companies may have contractual workers, but only for other roles.

Even companies like Google employ contractor programmers.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#24

Post by CydeWeys »

volkfish55 wrote: post #18
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Contractor are paid more, since they have to factor in the health insurance, taxes, unpaid vacation, perks, their own laptops, no need for office space, no 401k match. There is no reason they would ever get paid less. Maybe those with H1B visas who can get taken advantage of or outsourced contractors in Ukraine? Those contractors definitely get paid a fraction of US salary.

The vast majority of "contractors" in the US are paid than their full-time equivalents.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#25

Post by meddlepal »

netheril96 wrote: post #7
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Do companies whose primary employees are programmers also employ contractual programmers? According to my observation, computer technology companies may have contractual workers, but only for other roles.

Yes, all the time. Often in key positions or on strategic initiatives where expertise or specialist skills are needed. I've also seen short contracts used while a company ramps up hiring FTE as a velocity optimization to get the ball rolling on something new.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#26

Post by BurningFrog »

taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

There are two distinct classes of contractors.

- Those who aren't good enough to get a full time job.

- Those who are too good to settle for a full time job.

The two groups are treated quite differently.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#27

Post by danans »

There are many types of work outside of Tech and Gig-worker (the two that most comments here focus on) in which workers are inappropriately classified as contractors in order to reduce carried risk and cost to the employer, but where the employer also exerts significant control over the time, place and manner in which the work is done.

My own familiarity with this (through family who have experienced it) is in the healthcare field, where new graduates who are hungry for experience have little leverage vs established employers, and don't push the issue of how they are incorrectly classified as contractors.

Their only alternative would be to report the misclassification to state employment authorities, but again, they are often not in a position to make that worthwhile.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#28

Post by kbenson »

CydeWeys wrote: post #24
volkfish55 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contractor are paid more, since they have to factor in the health insurance, taxes, unpaid vacation, perks, their own laptops, no need for office space, no 401k match. There is no reason they would ever get paid less. Maybe those with H1B visas who can get taken advantage of or outsourced contractors in Ukraine? Those contractors definitely get paid a fraction of US salary.

The vast majority of "contractors" in the US are paid than their full-time equivalents.

> The vast majority of "contractors" in the US are paid than their full-time equivalents.

You're missing the most important word there. I'm honestly not sure which one is intended.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#29

Post by taurath »

volkfish55 wrote: post #18
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Contractor are paid more, since they have to factor in the health insurance, taxes, unpaid vacation, perks, their own laptops, no need for office space, no 401k match. There is no reason they would ever get paid less. Maybe those with H1B visas who can get taken advantage of or outsourced contractors in Ukraine? Those contractors definitely get paid a fraction of US salary.

Contractors are almost always paid less in my experience after taking into effect stock grants and bonuses. The contracting agency probably gets a nice portion of the takehome though (for having the political capital of being on a preferred vendors list), so to the company they probably pay more than salary.

Re: California Supreme Court Transforms the Test for Who Is an Employee

#30

Post by perl4ever »

netheril96 wrote: post #7
taurath wrote: post #2

It’s interesting how even within companies a hard set social hierarchy has taken place between employees and contractors. The contractors tend to perform the exact same duties as employees, but are usually paid less, have worse future prospects (companies tend to like to hire from full time to full time), worse benefits and generally don’t get most of the perks of being an employee. For coders, is this because they’r…

Do companies whose primary employees are programmers also employ contractual programmers? According to my observation, computer technology companies may have contractual workers, but only for other roles.

I couldn't tell you the reasoning, but I've worked at a couple of places where there were contract programmers alongside FTE programmers. In one case, that contract programmer became a FTE, but in either situation, most of the programmers were FTEs.
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