Everyone is convinced of their ideas of what Detroit needs but I really think it needs to have some new industries and an economy that is diverse enough to support it in tough times.The problem is the only real industry to bring the kind of wealth the city was used to in the mid 20th century would be the tech industry and the Midwest is a bit too homey to be the next SV. People here deep down are still weary of sitting in front of a tube all day.
Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
71–80 of 182 posts
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#72Weird that the article does not cite a single economic or demographic indicator to support its assertion. For example, Detroit's population has declined so far this decade at about the same pace as it declined from 1990-2000 (though not at the disastrous pace it declined from 2000-2010, when the city lost a quarter of its population). Sounds like far from a revival.
This is a pretty weird article, without some kind of further support it really smacks of a manufactured narrative. As you say, the population - which the article insists is the key factor - shows no sign of recovering. It's simply ceased the plummet it was in during the economic crisis and preceding years. The rate of decline might be a bit slower than the 90s, but the second derivative is still 0. (If you made me of…
On the other hand, an article like this can contribute to the hoped-for revival. The media has considerable power. It seems ungenerous to criticise them when they use it for good, manufactured narrative or not.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#73Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo, and so on got absolutely destroyed after all the mills were shut down. The bar for reviving is incredibly low. Those that could leave, left. The very people that could quicken the recovery of the fallen Midwestern towns are the same people who left. Detroit has UM, Cleveland has Case Western, Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon which are all top-flight schools. In a strange way, the…
Not only is this a non-sequitir from the previous paragraph, but drinking beer (cheap is relative) and screaming at a television is a tradition shared by people of every economic and social class in the US. Furthermore, no policy has impinged on or repressed anyone's right or ability to do that, and nobody is forcing people to drink expensive coffee or eat farm-to-table food.
Also, computers screens a reality of work in a developed economy. People working in modern industrial facilities have to operate sophisticated machinery, and that often involves computers screens, in jobs that have nothing to do with programming. I have family that manage aircraft maintenance teams in the military, and they spend a lot of time in front of screens, because it's the best tool for aspects of the job.
> There is nothing shameful about marrying a man or woman while holding each other's calloused hands at the alter.
The only people attacking straight-marriage are libertarians like Ron Paul, who don't think government should be recognizing _any_ marriages, so this statement goes beyond a straw-man, and straight into dog-whistle territory.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Detroit was never all impoverished Eh, it was pretty close. What neighborhoods are you thinking of? Places that are actually independent cities like Grosse Pointe don't count. Palmer Woods, maybe, I guess? Anything else?
Fair question - I did have Grosse Pointe in mind, among others, and that is kind of cheating. Hopefully the NYT is careful enough that they're not comparing Detroit neighborhoods to inner ring suburbs, or the whole thing is sort of bust. I was also thinking about some of the Downtown blocks, but those aren't especially residential. I don't have a handy answer for a city-limits residential area which was doing all tha…
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everyone in America doesn't want to stare at a computer, drink $5 latte's, and eat farm to table food. There is nothing wrong with a town that has $3 beers in a plastic cup and a crowd of people screaming until at the TV until they are horse. There is nothing shameful about marrying a man or woman while holding each other's calloused hands at the alter. Sure, but the money for that has to come from somewhere. Nowada…
To clarify, the people working by staring at computers are also seen as a cost to be repressed and not a service to be rewarded. Supply and demand has made the cost resistant to repression up til now, but the economic system is hard at work finding out how to change that. One might even go so far as to postulate if the IT industries push to get more people into IT is so that labor supply goes up leading to labor cost…
This has been discussed in great detail, especially here on HN. The consensus seems to be that even if you increase the supply by a lot, the nature of Software Engineering, its inherent complexity will restrict the supply of the highly skilled workers. This theory seems to have held out in the Indian/Chinese labor markets; but its possible there are other systemic reason for that.
Meanwhile the demand for Technology skills keeps increasing rapidly. Perhaps in the next economic bust there will be a much-delayed correction. The future does look pretty rosy for Software Engineers at the present time.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry I have to do it; Detroit does not have U of Mich. U of Mich is 45 minutes west in Ann Arbor. Some U of M grads go over to Detroit, but it's not like U of M students live in Detroit. They are very separate. Detroit is mostly reviving because Ann Arbor, where U of M is, is way too expensive. The Ferndale area of Detroit is becoming what Ann Arbor was when I grew up in the 80s; all about its local community an…
People are moving from Ann Arbor to Detroit, really?
I found an article [1] which claims that 40% of UM's living alumni currently live in Michigan. I would wager that the rates for recent graduates are even lower, since moving away from family has become more common, but I couldn't find data.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It’s an odd place. That's exactly how I felt living in Baltimore. Now that I live in New York, everyone and everything seems so normal, but in a dull kind of way. America's downtrodden and resurgent smaller cities have a lot going for them in terms of culture, character, the resiliency of their people. I really hope they can find some measure of economic success.
I live in Baltimore - I've always thought Detroit was our sister city. Both totally F'd. I still like B'More though. Dunno why.
1) Both independent cities. There are only a few in the entire country. St. Louis and Baltimore are the two largest. This dynamic plays out in very similar ways in both cities. I hang out on r/baltimore a bit. The people there use the terms "City" and "County" almost exactly as we do.
2) Similar demographics, crime rates, and issues. Detroit is down to about 10% white. The splits in Baltimore and St. Louis are more even, which informs quite a bit of the racial politics in each city. (I can't imagine there's much of a white voting bloc left in Detroit, but it still makes a big difference in St. Louis and Baltimore.)
3) Very similar population peaks. St. Louis peaked at ~850k. Baltimore once had about 950k. Detroit was much, much larger at its peak.
4) The Baltimore Orioles used to be the St. Louis Browns.
5) Similar architectural patterns. Where Baltimore has row houses:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/7e/11/557e11d75dd3b45ed3ef...
St. Louis has red brick:
https://misfitstream.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/25.jpg
The prevalence of each form creates very similar vibes in each city. Detroit doesn't seem to have any such dominant form.
6) Detroit's boom (driven by the automobile) came later than either Baltimore's or St. Louis's. Baltimore and St. Louis are much more from the same, earlier era and that definitely comes through when walking around in their older neighborhoods.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#78Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo, and so on got absolutely destroyed after all the mills were shut down. The bar for reviving is incredibly low. Those that could leave, left. The very people that could quicken the recovery of the fallen Midwestern towns are the same people who left. Detroit has UM, Cleveland has Case Western, Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon which are all top-flight schools. In a strange way, the…
I find that pretty pretentious.
And the problem with it is that it makes the situation out to be one purely of aesthetic and moral preferences, completely ignoring ecomonic factors that can't be simply chosen based on such preferences.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#79Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo, and so on got absolutely destroyed after all the mills were shut down. The bar for reviving is incredibly low. Those that could leave, left. The very people that could quicken the recovery of the fallen Midwestern towns are the same people who left. Detroit has UM, Cleveland has Case Western, Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon which are all top-flight schools. In a strange way, the…
just say neigh to screaming at sports events until you are hoarse.
Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a pretty weird article, without some kind of further support it really smacks of a manufactured narrative. As you say, the population - which the article insists is the key factor - shows no sign of recovering. It's simply ceased the plummet it was in during the economic crisis and preceding years. The rate of decline might be a bit slower than the 90s, but the second derivative is still 0. (If you made me of…
> This is a pretty weird article, without some kind of further support it really smacks of a manufactured narrative. On the other hand, an article like this can contribute to the hoped-for revival. The media has considerable power. It seems ungenerous to criticise them when they use it for good, manufactured narrative or not.