Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving • Hacker News Board

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#21

Post by hackeraccount » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

ch4s3 wrote: post #8

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #2

Detroit is an odd place. For years of going there for work it was tough to find locally owned restaurants in favor of chains, it’s do-able but you might end up in weird places like a polish restaurant literally in the basement of a house a few blocks off Woodward. The people who identify with Detroit really do so. There is at first an inexplicable pride of being “from the D”, but it’s nice, there are really diverse a…

> It’s an odd place. That's exactly how I felt living in Baltimore. Now that I live in New York, everyone and everything seems so normal, but in a dull kind of way. America's downtrodden and resurgent smaller cities have a lot going for them in terms of culture, character, the resiliency of their people. I really hope they can find some measure of economic success.

I live in Baltimore - I've always thought Detroit was our sister city. Both totally F'd. I still like B'More though. Dunno why.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#22

Post by dizzystar » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo, and so on got absolutely destroyed after all the mills were shut down.

The bar for reviving is incredibly low. Those that could leave, left. The very people that could quicken the recovery of the fallen Midwestern towns are the same people who left.

Detroit has UM, Cleveland has Case Western, Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon which are all top-flight schools. In a strange way, they all have great local resources, but these are all, culturally, working class blue collar cities, and there is really nothing wrong with that. These cities ought to do better to embrace that identity.

I'm from Cleveland. The city was fighting hard against the impending collapse by building out the Rock Hall, rebuilding the Browns stadium and discouraging the Dog Pound, along with and other things to make it more like a major city, ripping out the soul along the way. When LTV steel went under, the dominoes fell one after another, which destroyed the day and night life of the flats.1

Everyone in America doesn't want to stare at a computer, drink $5 latte's, and eat farm to table food. There is nothing wrong with a town that has $3 beers in a plastic cup and a crowd of people screaming until at the TV until they are horse. There is nothing shameful about marrying a man or woman while holding each other's calloused hands at the alter.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#23

Post by jsmthrowaway » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #6

Weird that the article does not cite a single economic or demographic indicator to support its assertion. For example, Detroit's population has declined so far this decade at about the same pace as it declined from 1990-2000 (though not at the disastrous pace it declined from 2000-2010, when the city lost a quarter of its population). Sounds like far from a revival.

As always, those of us who live here or nearby (in my case) understand what's happening in Detroit, and are more than happy to watch everyone else in the country dismiss it and look for the negative statistics. Detroit is one of the only cities in the country that seems to attract this mid-brow "are they really improving, though? Yeah, right" dismissal. As someone on the ground, if you want the negative statistics to rally around, start looking at the racial inequality of who the growth is benefiting; that should give you something to talk to your friends about at the coffee pot for a few weeks, at least. (The good news is we've quietly become a champion for diversity in government throughout the metro area and, potentially, the state soon enough.)

Meanwhile, we'll keep working on it. For example, pretty much all of us understand that Detroit needs to decrease in physical size. That's already underway. Statistics don't really account for something like that. The foodie neighborhoods where a SoMa resident would feel at home? Can't really capture those effectively in stats, either. How blocks of what used to be abandoned buildings are now yielding economic crops? On, and on.

You don't snap your fingers and reinvent a city overnight. I left, then left SV to return. Interpret that accordingly.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#24

Post by unit91 » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

trisimix wrote: post #12

Hi I'm from Detroit, I love seeing my city talked about. A lot of people are claiming decline of residents as a lack of proof of revival. Heres a counterpoint: https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2017/07/10/detro... Detroit is spectacular for many reasons. We have retained and nurtured our resources from before the decline such as our art museum, libraries and ISPs (not the consumer ones). In the midst of our…

Do you work for the city, a university in Detroit, etc?

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#25

Post by Bartweiss » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

trisimix wrote: post #14

rayiner wrote: post #6

Weird that the article does not cite a single economic or demographic indicator to support its assertion. For example, Detroit's population has declined so far this decade at about the same pace as it declined from 1990-2000 (though not at the disastrous pace it declined from 2000-2010, when the city lost a quarter of its population). Sounds like far from a revival.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2017/07/10/detro...

> Take this at face value: Detroit has 50% more venture-backed startups than it did three years ago. This comes from a study from the Michigan Venture Capital Association (MVCA) which found there are 35 active venture-backed startups in Detroit. Sure, that’s not a huge number compared to other regions, but the growth is notable.

The actual change here is "Detroit had a net gain of 12 startups over three years".

That, and the comparable stat for Michigan as a whole, are the only growth numbers actually present in the article. And even the author rightly admits that we're talking about a tiny starting number. Remember that XKCD about rapid growth and small populations? (https://xkcd.com/1102/) To be a bit cynical, this looks like a submarine piece for the Michigan Venture Capital Association, which is the source for 100% of the article's data, including the filler stuff about investment sectors that adds more statistics without advancing the actual growth thesis.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#26

Post by sneak » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:20 PM UTC

Certain parts of Detroit have seen rents double or triple in the last 3 years or so. I am hesitant to say that the city as a whole is “back” but downtown and other parts are definitely worlds more viable now than they were even just a few short years ago. There are fair numbers of (mostly white) people moving into the city to capitalize on this. Police/911 response times are way down and the halo of Gilbert/Quicken businesses have certainly made downtown a lot more livable (eg Rocket Fiber lighting a bunch of condos and apartments downtown).

I swore for years I would never go back to my hometown, and I just bought a (still cheap, thankfully) condo there (although not as my primary residence). It’s much better than it ever has been in my lifetime (I’m 35).

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#27

Post by ebbv » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #22

Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo, and so on got absolutely destroyed after all the mills were shut down. The bar for reviving is incredibly low. Those that could leave, left. The very people that could quicken the recovery of the fallen Midwestern towns are the same people who left. Detroit has UM, Cleveland has Case Western, Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon which are all top-flight schools. In a strange way, the…

I'm sorry I have to do it; Detroit does not have U of Mich. U of Mich is 45 minutes west in Ann Arbor. Some U of M grads go over to Detroit, but it's not like U of M students live in Detroit. They are very separate.

Detroit is mostly reviving because Ann Arbor, where U of M is, is way too expensive. The Ferndale area of Detroit is becoming what Ann Arbor was when I grew up in the 80s; all about its local community and full of young people trying to do new stuff.

A big reason is that Ferndale was very cheap to live in, and while it's come up a lot it's still a lot cheaper than Ann Arbor (and a lot of other parts of Michigan.)

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#28

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

hpcjoe wrote: post #9

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #2

Detroit is an odd place. For years of going there for work it was tough to find locally owned restaurants in favor of chains, it’s do-able but you might end up in weird places like a polish restaurant literally in the basement of a house a few blocks off Woodward. The people who identify with Detroit really do so. There is at first an inexplicable pride of being “from the D”, but it’s nice, there are really diverse a…

Mario's[1] for excellent Italian food. Xoxhimilco[2] for excellent Mexican food. Antonio's[3] in the burbs. New Peking[4] in GC for excellent Chinese food. I've lived in Michigan 30 years now. Came here for grad school, first at MSU, then down to Wayne State for Ph.D. Never left. There is something about this place. Even when we are getting the crap kicked out of us ... we don't give up. It took a long time to get ri…

> Private and charter schooling is doing a great job of fixing that, giving parents a choice

Free private schools?

If not they are giving parents that can afford it a choice. Just like wealthy expats tend to place their kids in good private schools in poor places because they can afford it.

As long as education isn't good for everybody it's just another way to stack the deck.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#29

Post by rayiner » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #23

rayiner wrote: post #6

Weird that the article does not cite a single economic or demographic indicator to support its assertion. For example, Detroit's population has declined so far this decade at about the same pace as it declined from 1990-2000 (though not at the disastrous pace it declined from 2000-2010, when the city lost a quarter of its population). Sounds like far from a revival.

As always, those of us who live here or nearby (in my case) understand what's happening in Detroit, and are more than happy to watch everyone else in the country dismiss it and look for the negative statistics. Detroit is one of the only cities in the country that seems to attract this mid-brow "are they really improving, though? Yeah, right" dismissal. As someone on the ground, if you want the negative statistics to…

I’m not skeptical of Detroit’s revival. I’m skeptical of an article that makes the claim Detroit is reviving with pictures and quotes, without citing to facts and statistics.

Re: Detroit Was Crumbling, Now It's Reviving

#30

Post by jsmthrowaway » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #29

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, those of us who live here or nearby (in my case) understand what's happening in Detroit, and are more than happy to watch everyone else in the country dismiss it and look for the negative statistics. Detroit is one of the only cities in the country that seems to attract this mid-brow "are they really improving, though? Yeah, right" dismissal. As someone on the ground, if you want the negative statistics to…

I’m not skeptical of Detroit’s revival. I’m skeptical of an article that makes the claim Detroit is reviving with pictures and quotes, without citing to facts and statistics.

You sure? You literally said, "sounds like far from a revival," and cited population to make your point.