Can the process be streamlined into a single amateur-friendly device/lab? Yes, I mean a chip printer, as a commercial product.
A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
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Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#42When I read things like this I start to think about the following question: Given no technology at all (i.e. after an apocalypse!), how would one go about creating a computer (as we know them). What sort of knowledge would you need? The science of these things is basically multi decades of trial and error in various disciplines. Imagine a manual that explained how to create everything from scratch!
Most electrical and computer engineering undergrad degrees (not CS) do give you this information. You first learn how to create a transistor, then basic AND/OR logic gates with individual transistors, then adders and subtractors, and then eventually a pipelined processor with look ahead execution.
The fundamentals of a transistor, sure, but where does computer engineering include the chemistry of the actual lithography processes?
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
or "The straight liquid must really be a treat, but I’ve never seen it in that form, and would only wish to through binoculars."
The fact that it is liquid at relatively balmy temperatures makes it a bit easier to handle than most gases, but then you better have great urethane seals, gloves and clothing everywhere. (Silicones are permeable, PTFE is damaged over time, nitrile and vinyl gloves also leak.)
8mil nitrile x2 with no extended(!) contact option. Like silane: http://amo-csd.lbl.gov/downloads/Chemical%20Resistance%20of%...
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most electrical and computer engineering undergrad degrees (not CS) do give you this information. You first learn how to create a transistor, then basic AND/OR logic gates with individual transistors, then adders and subtractors, and then eventually a pipelined processor with look ahead execution.
The fundamentals of a transistor, sure, but where does computer engineering include the chemistry of the actual lithography processes?
I suspect knowing the fundamentals gets you pretty far, just knowing that UV and masks are a way to do it is enough for people to re-create the tech given the resources. Maybe e-beam would be a easier start? IDK.
Not related but fun given the q: https://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/june/computer-water-drop...
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most electrical and computer engineering undergrad degrees (not CS) do give you this information. You first learn how to create a transistor, then basic AND/OR logic gates with individual transistors, then adders and subtractors, and then eventually a pipelined processor with look ahead execution.
The fundamentals of a transistor, sure, but where does computer engineering include the chemistry of the actual lithography processes?
There are electives under materials science departments that most engineering students can take (I took a 2 credit intro course). If you want that to be your focus, then you become a materials science major.
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#46IEEE has a background piece for those (like me) wondering "who is this guy?" https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/the-high-sc... Impressive.
His inspiration, Jeri Ellsworth is just (if not more) impressive. Check out her youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdcKwOo7dmM
[5:16] "...oh, I didn't die having go in there messing with the hydrofluoric acid. My bones do feel a little gelatinous though."
I'm not sure if I should admire or condone this kind of attitude in a science related context.
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#47When I read things like this I start to think about the following question: Given no technology at all (i.e. after an apocalypse!), how would one go about creating a computer (as we know them). What sort of knowledge would you need? The science of these things is basically multi decades of trial and error in various disciplines. Imagine a manual that explained how to create everything from scratch!
I'm interesting in this too and wondering why nobody did huge task and compiling everything into one book, starting from refining materials to making 8051/Z80 era pc
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#48Awesome. For those considering exploring some of these steps in their own garage -- the chemistry is dangerous, perhaps HF in particular, as it doesn't hurt, it just kills you a few hours later. Can you do this in a garage? Absolutely, but learn everything you need to know from an ensemble of safety-minded mentors before you strike out on your own. It's not just about safety for you, proper disposal of these chemical…
Of course, caution is always warranted when dealing with HF. However, I don't see any reason why it can't be safely used at home. In fact HF is found in lots of commonly used household cleaning products like rust and stain removers. Plenty of people are using Goof Off Rust remover and are not dropping dead later in the day.
That's akin to saying water-guns aren't very dangerous therefore shotguns are safe to play with.
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#49I was looking for how he managed the clean room or did he not go too small. Found the answer in the IEEE article shared by another commenter (he didn't go below 10 micron tech node). But now I have a follow up question, if getting a clean room is obviously harder, isn't "clean box" more doable? E.g., if you line up a bunch of tables, and put a long box on top that acts like a poor man's assembly line. The insides of…
Also if you don't really care about yield, many things are not that critical. I did a PhD in semi-conductor physics, and most processes for silicon are actually surprisingly robust (compared to processes of any other material). Also many things are just done the way because people know it worked before, which does not mean you can't use less fancy equipment and it would still work.
Re: A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit
#50Can the process be streamlined into a single amateur-friendly device/lab? Yes, I mean a chip printer, as a commercial product.
Chip printer that would make IC's that are better than what amateur can make from readily available cheap components on a PCB board would be used in the industry first.
There is small number of field-programmable analog array (FPAA) products and FPGA/FPAA hybrids in the market. I hope they become better and more available (never used one myself).