Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is "this"?
Being wiped from the internet by a disagreeable CA authority. If that is what "this" is.
http://sci-hub.tw/ is reachable no problem. Cut down on the hyperbole please.
Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
81–90 of 154 posts
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a much bigger deal than people are giving it credit for. At any point in history, have CAs revoked certs solely to censor a target website? Maybe the answer is yes. I don't know. But this is a rude wake-up call for me and everyone else who tried to force the world into this shape. We've all been shouting "You have to use TLS! It's fundamental security 101. If you're not using https, your site is probably brok…
I do not see how censorship at the CA level is worse than the ISP/ DNS level. We should not discourage people from using TLS because it allows for one of many other methods to censor. SEC takedowns have happened for years without relying on TLS.
ISP/DNS-takedowns affect only customers of a single provider. Compelling every US provider is tedious and would still not affect people in other jurisdictions. CA-levy takedowns affect everyone.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well said. I blame 2nd coming Jobs (iMac and iPod era) and same period Microsoft for a lot of this as they competed with each other. Usability became more important than flexibility. And intuitive operation prioritized over ease of learning. There's a lot to be said for a harder to use computer with a learning curve, but which affords you more power to be a creator instead of a consumer at the end of the curve. I'd g…
More importantly, the ability to write and run your own code easily, of which learning is only part of the process. From that perspective, Apple was closed from almost the beginning, while the PC and various other micros of the time (ZX, C64, etc.) started out open.
The Apple ][ wasn't closed, you could hack away on it just as much as any other 8bit machine of the day. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it was from the Mac onward life got a bit more challenging.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#84This type of thing is my number one objection to Certificate Authorities. In fact, it's my objection to computation illiteracy being acceptable in general amongst users. Devs and agencies cannot be trusted not to screw with things. If the average Joe cannot understand what is going on behind the curtains, they aren't free. Freedom is a scary thing to many groups, and unfortunately, more and more we are seeing the pen…
Well said. I blame 2nd coming Jobs (iMac and iPod era) and same period Microsoft for a lot of this as they competed with each other. Usability became more important than flexibility. And intuitive operation prioritized over ease of learning. There's a lot to be said for a harder to use computer with a learning curve, but which affords you more power to be a creator instead of a consumer at the end of the curve. I'd g…
> Usability became more important than flexibility. And intuitive operation prioritized over ease of learning.
Why is this problematic? Why is more people having access to computing a bad thing? This is a dangerous, and (dare I say) elitist opinion. We're seeing positive impact, every day, thanks to the ubiquitously available computing resources.
If you'd like to use a computer with a learning curve, use a computer with a learning curve. Don't drag the whole world with you.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#85This type of thing is my number one objection to Certificate Authorities. In fact, it's my objection to computation illiteracy being acceptable in general amongst users. Devs and agencies cannot be trusted not to screw with things. If the average Joe cannot understand what is going on behind the curtains, they aren't free. Freedom is a scary thing to many groups, and unfortunately, more and more we are seeing the pen…
> the Internet's original intent: to facilitate the fast and open communication of information
Where'd you get that from?
I think the Internet's original intent was to do it "because we can". Everything else came afterward.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Self-signed certificates, trust on first use (or verify out of band) like SSH, works around most of this
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the signed server-identifying cert is swapped in TLS before the connection is encrypted, no? So it's not technically infeasible to have networking gear drop any connection which doesn't chain back to a government-approved root?
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the signed server-identifying cert is swapped in TLS before the connection is encrypted, no?
Only on old TLS versions. TLS 1.3 changed it so the server certificate is also encrypted.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well said. I blame 2nd coming Jobs (iMac and iPod era) and same period Microsoft for a lot of this as they competed with each other. Usability became more important than flexibility. And intuitive operation prioritized over ease of learning. There's a lot to be said for a harder to use computer with a learning curve, but which affords you more power to be a creator instead of a consumer at the end of the curve. I'd g…
This is really silly to me. Making computers accessible seems like a completely reasonable, sound priority. Yes, computer literacy is something we all need to work towards, but we'll never be in a world where the average person understands PKI, and saying that we should limit accessibility until they do is absurd.
Yeah, understanding the internal combustion engine should not be a prerequisite for riding a bus.
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#88shouldnt we be using some trustless system for encryption by now?
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is really silly to me. Making computers accessible seems like a completely reasonable, sound priority. Yes, computer literacy is something we all need to work towards, but we'll never be in a world where the average person understands PKI, and saying that we should limit accessibility until they do is absurd.
Yeah, understanding the internal combustion engine should not be a prerequisite for riding a bus.
Most people have at least a vague idea of how a combustion engine works, don't they?
Re: Tell HN: Sci-Hub's TLS certificate has started failing
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well said. I blame 2nd coming Jobs (iMac and iPod era) and same period Microsoft for a lot of this as they competed with each other. Usability became more important than flexibility. And intuitive operation prioritized over ease of learning. There's a lot to be said for a harder to use computer with a learning curve, but which affords you more power to be a creator instead of a consumer at the end of the curve. I'd g…
This is really silly to me. Making computers accessible seems like a completely reasonable, sound priority. Yes, computer literacy is something we all need to work towards, but we'll never be in a world where the average person understands PKI, and saying that we should limit accessibility until they do is absurd.
but we'll never be in a world where the average person understands PKI
2000 years ago: "we'll never be in a world where the average person can read and write English"