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France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

arstechnica.com

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Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#21

Post by Shinkei »

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case.

.gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding.

These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that France.com should be available to the French government... then it's a slippery slope. Are you going to give them to right to take down critical websites with titles like Francesucks.com or Francegenocide.com.

These lawsuits have played out before between private individuals like Madonna et al.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting

Why should a government be privileged to seize any .com that they deem to be in their interest? There is no evidence that France.com was not being used in a nefarious or misleading way.... in fact it sounds like the government had at least unofficially endorsed the site's usage and contributed. It was being used for a bonafide business.

I really think anyone defending a government's 'right' to seize this domain name is forgetting the underlying liberal democratic principles of the internet. Rights are for people, not governments. I don't see how France acting in this way serves its people constructively.

EDIT: It seems like all people care to comment on is the fact that they (and I) already know that .gov is for the US government, while other countries have their own TLDs.

Let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment to hopefully make you think more critically about this decision.

What if you owned a famous China (dishware, cups, etc) company and registered China.com back in 1994. Do you think China should be allowed to take that domain?

Or another, what if a new country were formed that were suddenly the same name as a pre-existing multinational corporation.... Government wins? Always?

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#22

Post by delinka »

dade_ wrote: post #3

Web.com transfers the france.com they registered for their customer (since 1994) to the government of France without explanation or warning. "on March 12, 2018, Web.com abruptly transferred ownership of the domain to the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The company did so without any formal notification to Frydman and no compensation." It is actually just another example proving the warning we have all known/given…

“...cloud providers owning your digital properties.”

Not entirely the case. If your domain name represents a registered trademark, I think you’ll find the courts on your side should someone attempt to commandere your domain name.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#23

Post by pavlov »

Shinkei wrote: post #21

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case. .gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding. These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that…

.gov is only available to the United States government. There's no way for France to get france.gov.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#24

Post by themaninthedark »

mercurial wrote: post #14
gaius wrote: post #8

My memory is hazy now but I recall in the mid-90s Gap (the clothing company) suing Genesis Access Point (an ISP) over gap.com and winning. First come first served is the only fair way to run domain names.

Also known as "enabling domain name squatters".

Perhaps so. But how would you have the issue resolved? Should the domain go to the most well known party? The product a reasonable person expects to find when they type in the address?

What happens if I register icar.com for product that syncs your car to the cloud. Then Apple decides they want to compete with Elon Musk, with their new Icar. Who will get the domain?

What happens when a large company decides to rebrand it's self and wants the domain?

What happens to Nissan? http://www.nissan.com

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#25

Post by geezerjay »

Shinkei wrote: post #21

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case. .gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding. These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that…

> .gov was created for a reason.

Apparently, the .gov tld was created to be uses exclusively by government entities in the United States.

France is not a government entity of the USA.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#26

Post by Shinkei »

pavlov wrote: post #23
Shinkei wrote: post #21

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case. .gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding. These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that…

.gov is only available to the United States government. There's no way for France to get france.gov.

I edited my post. I meant to say that governments have assigned/protected names like .fr, .de, etc.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#27

Post by Shinkei »

geezerjay wrote: post #25
Shinkei wrote: post #21

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case. .gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding. These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that…

> .gov was created for a reason. Apparently, the .gov tld was created to be uses exclusively by government entities in the United States. France is not a government entity of the USA.

I edited my post. I meant to say that governments have assigned/protected names like .fr, .de, etc.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#28

Post by loup-vaillant »

lkrubner wrote: post #7

The courts, in the USA, have found that domain names are not property, instead they are like telephone numbers: ---------------- The court found that under the California tariffs, rules, and regulations applicable to public utilities, and under the terms of the contracts, the debtors had no “proprietary right in the number.” https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0a84b472-c89f... Also: ...under Virginia law,…

We may argue that domain names are different from phone numbers because they are recognisable. They carry trademarks, and unlike phone numbers, are often the way we remember of an internet facing person or company. Also, the practical consequences of losing a phone number are much tamer than that of losing a domain name.

I'm not sure the courts would hold the same conclusions for domain names and phone numbers. While even if the latter is not property, the former could be treated as intellectual property. Though in this case, that would be one more reason to give the domain name to the French government…

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#29

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

lkrubner wrote: post #7

The courts, in the USA, have found that domain names are not property, instead they are like telephone numbers: ---------------- The court found that under the California tariffs, rules, and regulations applicable to public utilities, and under the terms of the contracts, the debtors had no “proprietary right in the number.” https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0a84b472-c89f... Also: ...under Virginia law,…

> Governments have the right to assign to themselves any telephone number they wish, and reserve ranges of phone numbers for themselves,

They don't do that after the fact.

Re: France seizes france.com from man who's had it since 1994

#30

Post by cuonic »

Shinkei wrote: post #21

I'm pretty disappointed by all the armchair lawyering in this thread that isn't defending the individual/citizen in this case. .gov, .fr, etc were created for a reason. Trademark law is intended to protect people from intentionally misleading branding. These two items taken together should make it obvious that France.gov is the only name the government of France 'should' be entitled to. If you are willing to say that…

.gov is purely American, the French equivalent is .gouv.fr
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