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Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

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Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#11
post #3

I wonder if this kind of customs helped the Spanish conquest and subsequent colonization of the Inca/Aztec Empire. Because, no matter what culture you're part on, having your kill killed is going to make you be against the current rulers. No surprise small Spanish groups of sailors and great armies of native allies could topple several empires through America.

At least for the Aztecs, this is in fact the case. The Aztec kept subjugated peoples alive to husband them to supply human beings for their sacrifices.

The Spaniards allied themselves early with these would be victims, who therefore helped remove the numeric superiority the Aztecs would have otherwise enjoyed.

These allied tribes (see the Tlaxcala) then became a privilege class among the natives.

The guns, and the horses, obviously helped - but we're talking 4 orders of magnitude advantage if the Spaniards had not allied themselves with the locals. Even pandemics cannot erase that advantage (and they take time to spread)

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#12
post #6
post #4

Why "sacrifice" and not murder? > "People sacrifice that which is of most and greatest value to them," he explains. But then: > isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficu…

> To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficult to imagine. abraham was willing.

He stopped himself though. But yeah, more likely it was a neighbor who stopped him.

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#13
post #7
post #3

I wonder if this kind of customs helped the Spanish conquest and subsequent colonization of the Inca/Aztec Empire. Because, no matter what culture you're part on, having your kill killed is going to make you be against the current rulers. No surprise small Spanish groups of sailors and great armies of native allies could topple several empires through America.

> I wonder if this kind of customs helped the Spanish conquest and subsequent colonization of the Inca/Aztec Empire. I don't think so. It's probably mostly down to what Jared Diamond describes - Guns, Germs, and Steel. The occasional score of children and conquests slaughtered voluntarily is dwarfed by the numbers of natives that died from smallpox (f.e.).

Guns may have had much less to do with it than is commonly believed. I recommend the book 1492 if you're curious about why that is.

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#14
post #2

Having read A Death in the Andes and 1492 and having spent a few months in the Andes myself, it didn't surprise me to read that this child sacrifice included llamas and was likely an attempt to appease supernatural forces as plagues and natural disasters threatened precolombian civilizations. The Andes are a very strange superstitious place even today. Native cultures and traditions are still present. Llama sacrifice…

We're talking about an archeological find dated roughly 3500 years ago. Within the same span of time, human sacrifice was practiced in parts of Europe as well. Few of us use that fact as an opportunity to spread rumors that the modern-day Italians or Welsh continue to do so.

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficult to imagine. abraham was willing.

He stopped himself though. But yeah, more likely it was a neighbor who stopped him.

He didn’t stop himself, according to the story, God intervened. He was willing To go the whole hog

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#16
post #14
post #2

Having read A Death in the Andes and 1492 and having spent a few months in the Andes myself, it didn't surprise me to read that this child sacrifice included llamas and was likely an attempt to appease supernatural forces as plagues and natural disasters threatened precolombian civilizations. The Andes are a very strange superstitious place even today. Native cultures and traditions are still present. Llama sacrifice…

We're talking about an archeological find dated roughly 3500 years ago. Within the same span of time, human sacrifice was practiced in parts of Europe as well. Few of us use that fact as an opportunity to spread rumors that the modern-day Italians or Welsh continue to do so.

Vowel sacrifice is still practiced in the open in Wales.

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#17
post #4

Why "sacrifice" and not murder? > "People sacrifice that which is of most and greatest value to them," he explains. But then: > isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficu…

I certainly don't know the answer in this case, but to understand why sacrifice might be rational, you have to really contort your thinking and imagine your cost vs. benefit analysis when depriving your thought from centuries of advances in philosophy of science:

For the early humans many things obvious to us now were simply not known. The idea of an omnipotent sun god who controls the seasons isn't a priori crazy or anything. Why would it be? The normalization of how the solar system works only seems rational now because it's been scientifically presented to us.

In that sense a prediction that some entity controls this phenomena isn't necessarily superstitious. It's a fine prediction. But how do we get from there, to sacrifice?

Well, if we don't understand the mechanism of action for how these systems work, we can still try to make inference on them using statistics. For example: Sacrifice someone, then observe if anything changes. Before anyone ever ran this experiment, it's not obvious it wouldn't work. It's only obvious to us now because (a) we know the mechanism of action has no plausible link to human sacrifice, and (b) because people ran the experiment before, and it didn't work.

At the time, however, the benefit to this working would be huge, and the cost to society as a whole relatively small. This type of proto-statistical experimentation is, I think, what eventually led humanity to its core discoveries. In that sense we can't retroactively say the experiments that didn't work were superstitious or irrational, but the ones that did work were clever. For example, much of modern medicine arose from vast amounts of superstition and random experimentation.

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#19
post #4

Why "sacrifice" and not murder? > "People sacrifice that which is of most and greatest value to them," he explains. But then: > isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficu…

>Why "sacrifice" and not murder?

Words are tools. Which label is more descriptive in this context?

Re: Ancient Mass Child Sacrifice in Peru May Be World's Largest

#20
post #4

Why "sacrifice" and not murder? > "People sacrifice that which is of most and greatest value to them," he explains. But then: > isotopic analysis indicates that they were not all drawn from local populations but likely came from different ethnic groups and regions of the Chimú Empire To accept to have your own child taken from you and cut open to offer its heart to some angry God supposes an amount of "faith" difficu…

The movie Apocalypto comes to mind, where that is essentially the plot of the movie. I think you're probably right.
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