Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

movingfulcrum.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 149 posts

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#71

Post by stuff4ben »

ethbro wrote: post #59
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Eclipse was a product that IBM designed in the 90' : VisualAge (I used it at that time, it was really slow on an average computer). In the 2000 IBM renamed it "WAS" and it was its main studio for J2EE (Websphere) developpers. Some people really liked it. Then IBM opensourced it as "Eclipse". This name was perhaps a pun on "Sun".

I think most people are aware where it came from. ;)

Been a Java developer since 1999 and have used everything, MS Visual J++, JBuilder, NetBeans, Eclipse, IntelliJ. Sadly I just got the "joke" :( Never put two and two together, I just thought it was a cool name...

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#72

Post by howard941 »

In the embedded world I keep getting run over by vendors peddling Eclipse IDEs that look beautiful and support a nice dark theme that I really miss but not enough to say goodbye to IAR and a fast development environment that avoids most of the java overhead. Can't ever seem to have a powerful enough machine to run Eclipse satisfactorily.

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#73

Post by rafaelvasco »

Recently i changed to Netbeans having been using Eclipse at work for years and was pleasantly surprised. Much faster than eclipse, no constant lags and freezes. At home i use IntelliJ. Never looking back to Eclipse.

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#74

Post by nanospeck »

Totally disagree. IMHO I’ve tried both IntelliJ and Eclipse and felt IntelliJ to be really complex and non intutive. I can do tasks very quickly in Eclipse using shortcuts I’m familiar with. I also often feel the features of IntelliJ are over exaggerated and almost all the things can be done in Eclipse if you know how to use it. Once, I sat with a dev who was trying to evangelize IntelliJ in our workplace (and influence our manager to purchase licences)and explained alternatives in Eclipse for almost all the ‘awesome’ features he showed in IntelliJ. He simply didn’t know what eclipse could do. For me Eclipse starts really fast, I really like the UI better than IntelliJ. I believe Eclipse provide really awesome features for a free software and on the otherside IntelliJ doesn’t provide enough features for it’s heavy price. It seems many programmers (not all) these days feel fancy about boasting they use a paid IDE to hide their actual incompetence in programming. ( Ps: opinion only from java perspective)

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#75

Post by hedora »

neves wrote: post #57
maxxxxx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Its worth it to save the time figuring out eclipse." We talking about people making 100k+ but are worried about spending a few hundred for a better tool. It just shows that the same amount of money is valued different in a different context. Spending 500 more for a better laptop is being questioned and two days later you got to dinner with some VPs and they blow more than $200 per person for wine and food.

I don't know specifically about InteliJ, but the product price is usually the lowest cost of a closed source solution. I work in a government owned company. We have strict procurement rules that we must obey to buy things. Beyond the procurement bureaucracy, now we have to manage how much licenses we have. The install of a new instance in a user machine must be tracked. A user can't by himself install the software, w…

We had a similar experience with a closed source profiler. We paid for it, and the vendor repeatedly sent armies of sales engineers and even a core developer to help us use it.

Because of licensing enforcement mechanisms (we had a site license, FFS), we couldn’t figure out how to push it as part of the product to test or production clusters, so we just use perf, even though it has maybe 1% the functionality, is frequently wrong, and we desperately need the 99% missing functionality.

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#76

Post by astura »

yndoendo wrote: post #69
Elrac wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure in what way your Eclipse experience was so atavistic, but I'd like to point out that at least for several years I was aware of, Eclipse had a significant competitive advantage: Incremental compilation. You could make a small change, do a Ctrl-S, and Eclipse would compile the change nearly instantly, where all competing products (that I was aware of, correct me if you know better) needed to fire up a Java…

Incremental compilation is not tied to the compiler, since it has this ability when coding C/C++ applications too. I always disabled it since does not work properly with multi-project with custom libraries. Main project, it worked just fine.

You sure about that?

Eclipse comes with its own compiler and ONLY requires the JDE to develop Java application, not the JDK.

They also claim that its their compiler that implements the incremental compilation

https://www.eclipse.org/jdt/core/

>JDT Core is the Java infrastructure of the Java IDE. It includes:

>An incremental Java compiler. Implemented as an Eclipse builder, it is based on technology evolved from VisualAge for Java compiler. In particular, it allows to run and debug code which still contains unresolved errors...

>...The JDT Core infrastructure has no built-in JDK version dependencies, it also does not depend on any particular Java UI and can be run headless.

Not only that, but what does it matter if incremental compilation is "not tied to the compiler" if Eclipse was the only software that utilized it at the time?

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#77

Post by astura »

Aardwolf wrote: post #39
pwhegohw wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eclipse Keybindings are stored per workspace. A workspace can be used to develop multiple projects.

You're right, I remember it now. I used the wrong terminology in that case. Honestly, the end result is the same. I'm sure there were reasons to use multiple workspaces for different pieces of code and the same user of the same program would still want it to look and feel the same rather than getting thrown the defaults back in your face when starting a new workspace...

You can easily import your preferences into your new workspace.

I mean, it's not even difficult to find, File>Export and File>Import.

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#78

Post by zwieback »

JBReefer wrote: post #13

Still have no idea how to use Eclipse after 10 years. Vim, Emacs, VS Studio, VS Code, a few proprietary ones - very easy to figure out. Eclipse seems to be a magical combination of hard to use, slow, and hated. Was there a golden period? Was it great for awhile, and now is past it's prime, like MS Word?

I think there was a golden period for embedded systems and other non-Java developers that started about 10 years ago but maybe it's over, not sure since I'm not working in that space right now.

A lot of vendors wrote Eclipse plugins instead of doing their own IDE and everybody won. You could integrate auto-complete, compiler errors, source control and debugging all in one IDE with a little hand-tuning. You can get this to work across multiple toolchains, not just gcc. Sure, Eclipse is a hog but it still seemed better than having three ugly and buggier vendor IDEs on your machine.

Re: The Fall of Eclipse (2016)

#80

Post by ehmuidifici »

bahjoite wrote: post #53

For PHPers and lovers of Free Software, Eclipse and PHP Developer Tools (PDT) are very fine tools. Long live Eclipse!

Eclipse PDT (ex)user here. PDT worked like a charm until eclipse Mars. PDT on Neo and Oxygen are pretty bad: PHPCS / PHPMD is a nightmare to configure and xdebug sometimes works, sometimes not.

I had to change to PHP Storm, which is, IMHO, the best PHP IDE so far, and worth the price.

Post reply on HN