'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator • Hacker News Board

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#21

Post by jokermatt999 » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:07 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #2

Sadly, pirates don't actually convince their friends to buy it. They help them pirate it. He's right about doing what he can to provide features that pirates can't take advantage of, though. That's the only way to actually combat piracy.

That's actually not always true. Check out the reddit thread on this topic, and you'll see plenty of people who pirated first and then actually bought it. I know plenty of pirates use the "I try before I buy" line, but some of them actually do. You're right on your second sentence, but do you have anything whatsoever to back up your first?

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#22

Post by eli » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:10 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #5

wccrawford wrote: post #2

Sadly, pirates don't actually convince their friends to buy it. They help them pirate it. He's right about doing what he can to provide features that pirates can't take advantage of, though. That's the only way to actually combat piracy.

Put it online and downloading the client lets you pirate the game like downloading Firefox lets you pirate Basecamp.

What if it doesn't really make sense to add online or multiplayer support to the app/game? Then isn't it just the typical DRM anti-feature?

I'd be pretty annoyed if I couldn't play my fun new game on a plane because it needs to constantly connect to the internet to prove I didn't steal it.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#23

Post by gyardley » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:11 PM UTC

jokermatt999 wrote: post #21

wccrawford wrote: post #2

Sadly, pirates don't actually convince their friends to buy it. They help them pirate it. He's right about doing what he can to provide features that pirates can't take advantage of, though. That's the only way to actually combat piracy.

That's actually not always true. Check out the reddit thread on this topic, and you'll see plenty of people who pirated first and then actually bought it. I know plenty of pirates use the "I try before I buy" line, but some of them actually do . You're right on your second sentence, but do you have anything whatsoever to back up your first?

Back when my company was using our analytics to track piracy for iPhone applications, we found that 1 out of 243 people who stole an application later installed a legitimate copy.

We stopped tracking piracy when we realized that we were getting into a cat-and-mouse game with application pirates and the feature wasn't worth the resources, but I can't imagine these stats have changed much since.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#24

Post by jokermatt999 » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:17 PM UTC

gyardley wrote: post #23

jokermatt999 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually not always true. Check out the reddit thread on this topic, and you'll see plenty of people who pirated first and then actually bought it. I know plenty of pirates use the "I try before I buy" line, but some of them actually do . You're right on your second sentence, but do you have anything whatsoever to back up your first?

Back when my company was using our analytics to track piracy for iPhone applications, we found that 1 out of 243 people who stole an application later installed a legitimate copy. We stopped tracking piracy when we realized that we were getting into a cat-and-mouse game with application pirates and the feature wasn't worth the resources, but I can't imagine these stats have changed much since.

And how many of those people would have bought the application if it wasn't available to pirate? I'm guessing it would still be a much smaller number. There's a massive gap between being able to get something for completely free and having to pay for it.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#25

Post by billybob » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:18 PM UTC

rsbrown wrote: post #13

bkmartin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of like putting measures in place so that pirates are using more of a trial version of your software. I think this is the way most new programs are going these days. But that still doesn't solve the music aspect of pirating. What bonus stuff can you give over the music that can convert a considerable number of the pirates to paying customers?

Except for the tiny percentage of superstars, musical artists have always made more money through live performances than recording contracts. Ticket sales, merchandise and other such revenues are much less susceptible to pirating.

Be that as it may, can you see that it's legitimate for a musician to want to make, record, and sell music - not an associated industry of products? And there are fans who don't go to concerts or buy t-shirts, but really like listening to music? If you're a fan like that, and you don't give back to the artist at some point, you're making it less likely that the recordings you want will be made in the future.

Notice that I'm not throwing around moral claims. I'm just making an observation. If you want something to be made, and it costs time and money to make, you can encourage its creation or not. But don't complain that the music selection sucks if you don't financially support the music you like.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#26

Post by bherms » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:20 PM UTC

Das_Bruce wrote: post #7

Am I the only person who has bought a game after pirating and playing it through? Also I'd be more inclined to buy more games first if there was some way of getting my money back if I really don't like it. I'm looking at you, GTA4, you blurry, poo sandwich.

I've bought games/cds/movies after pirating them and enjoying them. I in no way represent everyone, but in my mind I see pirating as a trial period or satisfaction guarantee in a way. If I enjoy it, they deserve compensation so they can go on making others things I enjoy.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#27

Post by dingy » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:22 PM UTC

mquander wrote: post #20

NickPollard wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is (most of the time) the best solution these days, but it's still starting from a position of assuming the customer is a criminal. If you're not actually adding any useful internet-based features, then this is just another DRM system that will piss off paying customers when they want to play but don't have a net connection because they're using a laptop on a plane flight.

What's wrong with assuming the customer is a criminal if the big majority of your customers are, in fact, criminals? (Presuming that by "customer" you just mean "person playing your game.") The question should be: how do you account for the fact that your customers are criminals and still make money without crippling your game? Putting useful features online is a good answer to that question.

Well, if I'm the (non-criminal) customer and you're the game producer, what's wrong with it is that you're making your problem my problem. It isn't, it shouldn't be and I'm not going to let it be (and no, I don't pirate, I just don't buy stuff I dislike).

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#28

Post by mquander » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:26 PM UTC

dingy wrote: post #27

mquander wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with assuming the customer is a criminal if the big majority of your customers are, in fact, criminals? (Presuming that by "customer" you just mean "person playing your game.") The question should be: how do you account for the fact that your customers are criminals and still make money without crippling your game? Putting useful features online is a good answer to that question.

Well, if I'm the (non-criminal) customer and you're the game producer, what's wrong with it is that you're making your problem my problem. It isn't, it shouldn't be and I'm not going to let it be (and no, I don't pirate, I just don't buy stuff I dislike).

That's why I said "without crippling the game." You're right, though; most developers will make their problem your problem, either to a small degree (by making sure that some useful things are only accessible for authenticated online clients) or a large degree (requiring always-on connectivity, nutty DRM schemes.)

I don't think there's really anything "wrong" with that, though. It's not very fair, but that's how the world works. Given that people are going to continue to try making money from games, it seems like an optimal outcome.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#29

Post by eru » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:31 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #22

patio11 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put it online and downloading the client lets you pirate the game like downloading Firefox lets you pirate Basecamp.

What if it doesn't really make sense to add online or multiplayer support to the app/game? Then isn't it just the typical DRM anti-feature? I'd be pretty annoyed if I couldn't play my fun new game on a plane because it needs to constantly connect to the internet to prove I didn't steal it.

That's why the Minecraft creator's solution is sane. He does not block any features without network access. But some features only make sense with network access.

Re: 'How piracy works' according to Minecraft creator

#30

Post by dingy » Wed, Sep 15, 2010, 1:32 PM UTC

mquander wrote: post #28

dingy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if I'm the (non-criminal) customer and you're the game producer, what's wrong with it is that you're making your problem my problem. It isn't, it shouldn't be and I'm not going to let it be (and no, I don't pirate, I just don't buy stuff I dislike).

That's why I said "without crippling the game." You're right, though; most developers will make their problem your problem, either to a small degree (by making sure that some useful things are only accessible for authenticated online clients) or a large degree (requiring always-on connectivity, nutty DRM schemes.) I don't think there's really anything "wrong" with that, though. It's not very fair, but that's how the…

So, it's not fair but there's nothing wrong with it? I don't think we have the same definition of the word "wrong".