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Flask 1.0 Released

palletsprojects.com

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Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#91

Post by abhishekjha »

nickjj wrote: post #28

Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps, but honestly Flask scales really well for that type of use case (coming from a development / maintenance point of view). I have some pretty large Flask apps with dozens of top level dependencies and models spanning across many thousands of lines of code. Even if I don't touch the code base for a few months, it's easy to jump back into it. I'm also…

My employer made me switch from Flask to Django providing non-scalability reason. I asked around on a few online forums and they told me that flask has no such issues. There was an article where somebody from DISQUS explained how they were able to use flask in production without much hassel and there's no reason to switch to django. My employer told me to not use flask as it is not production grade. The problem was to implement a few web APIs. I switched, reluctantly. I am still not convinced though, given that I have very recently started using Flask/Django, it may come to me at a later time.

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#92

Post by abhishekjha »

iampims wrote: post #88
kstrauser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps I've never heard that before. It's been the go-to backend server at the last few companies I've worked for, and it's the first Python web framework I reach for when I need to roll out a new service. I think its explicitness is hugely wonderful for maintenance: given a route, it's straightforward to figure out exactly what code is being called.

I think its explicitness is hugely wonderful for maintenance I find all the magic really off-putting in Flask…

I thought what the parent comment meant was that there's little to no magic in Flask compared to some macro-framework like Django/Spring. Can you get any more explicit than Flask and still be called a framework, without hitting the socket levels?

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#93

Post by abhishekjha »

nicodjimenez wrote: post #40
nickjj wrote: post #28

Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps, but honestly Flask scales really well for that type of use case (coming from a development / maintenance point of view). I have some pretty large Flask apps with dozens of top level dependencies and models spanning across many thousands of lines of code. Even if I don't touch the code base for a few months, it's easy to jump back into it. I'm also…

Flask _does_ scale really well with lines of codes. However the limitations of Python w.r.t. async log really start to show once you step beyond simple CRUD apps.

Can you elaborate a little more on `limitations of Python w.r.t. async log`? I have switched to Django + Gunicorn which seems to be handling requests just fine.

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#94

Post by abhishekjha »

avip wrote: post #15
deft wrote: post #3

Never even realised it wasn't 1.0, maybe I should pay attention to version numbers. Changelog looks good! I've never understood logging in Flask or how to do it in a sane way for a simple app while using uWSGI, so I'm glad that has some improvements. I don't remember my exact issues but I couldn't get configuration from a text file to work and for some reason configuring it in-code wouldn't work either. I don't under…

My processes always log to stdout. stdout + supervisor + rsyslog = fun and profit. You can also log directly to rsyslog with python logger.

I have been logging to stdout mostly. Never used/heard of supervisor or rsyslog. What are their use cases?

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#95

Post by whitehouse3 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #30

Love Flask in theory. My biggest complaint was trying to do user management with it. Flask-Security was good, but the developer skipped town a few years ago. Did they come back? :D Basically you are left to your own devices, which sounds great, but user+auth is pretty fundamental to be left to a random absentee third-party in my opinion.

I was disappointed to see Flask-Security and Flask-Principal are now abandoned. We went with Flask-Allows for security at my job. It’s actively maintained with a simple API. Handles the requirements of our Flask-based ERP really well.

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#96

Post by abhishekjha »

acostanza wrote: post #87
aphextron wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your application server setup like? Is there a standard for this? I tried using UWSGI and Gunicorn with varied results. It was just a pain to setup. I hope things have improved.

I found it pretty easy to set up with Gunicorn and nginx, all running in Docker

Is there any definite tutorial to set it up with Gunicorn and ngnix? I have used gunicorn before but not with ngnix.

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#97

Post by no_wizard »

yen223 wrote: post #48
devy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps Not sure how to quantify that "large" but I've worked on some api backend services written in Flask with a quarter million lines of python code and not feeling "outgrowing" Flask. Granted, it took some good design and effort to make all piece s work together. These days, horizontally scale apps is the way to go.

In my experience, Django is less suitable for large projects than Flask. The nature of Django encourages tight coupling between unrelated parts of the system - Models intertwine database operations and business logic, ModelViews intertwine db operations, business logic and the interface layer. This is manageable in the small, but when you hit scale, this tight coupling adds a whole bunch of unnecessary complexity to…

Might want to tell instagram

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5WQjXLlq8

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#98

Post by abhishekjha »

This[0] is a pretty good starting point. The organisation of modules as well as the swagger documentation provides a pretty good insight about what can be done in flask. Out of curiosity, is it possible to change a few tags in the swagger doc that one gets to see in the browser? I would like to take a few tags out. I looked it up for spring and the process was pretty daunting.

[0]http://michal.karzynski.pl/blog/2016/06/19/building-beautifu...

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#99

Post by scrollaway »

abhishekjha wrote: post #91
nickjj wrote: post #28

Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps, but honestly Flask scales really well for that type of use case (coming from a development / maintenance point of view). I have some pretty large Flask apps with dozens of top level dependencies and models spanning across many thousands of lines of code. Even if I don't touch the code base for a few months, it's easy to jump back into it. I'm also…

My employer made me switch from Flask to Django providing non-scalability reason. I asked around on a few online forums and they told me that flask has no such issues. There was an article where somebody from DISQUS explained how they were able to use flask in production without much hassel and there's no reason to switch to django. My employer told me to not use flask as it is not production grade. The problem was t…

I've been developing with Django since the 0.90 days and, to be honest, I've seen a lot of scalability issues with Django itself once you get big enough.

Those issues all relate to how Django is an all-in-one solution with a lot of modules, which you start dropping one by one as you use different solutions.

For example, Django's cache layer is great, but as you scale you'll want to use Redis clients directly rather than the memcached abstraction.

The ORM is fantastic (and much more intuitive than SQLAlchemy). But as you scale, you'll want to use Postgres' more powerful features without worrying about compatibility with MySQL / SQLite. (Django has made progress in that area with contrib.postgres, but it's still only scratching the surface)

Forms? Templates? Staticfiles? If you're using a JS (Webpack and the like) frontend, forget about this stuff. You're better off not serving the frontend with Django at all, it'll only cause more trouble than is worth.

URL routing... again, nowadays even that is done in Javascript. And doing it in two places at the same time is a pain. Long term, you might drop that too.

What's left? The model layer, and the admin that accompanies it. I wouldn't trade the Django admin for the world but it also has a lot of scalability issues and although it's very declaratively customizable, it's much harder to customize specific models.

The auth layer is also probably something you'll keep for a long time, but it's littered with things you will probably not use such as the whole groups/permissions system, or the adminlogs auditing system (which is super cool but the API is very hard to use outside the Admin).

The problem with Flask is it's missing in the "what's left" parts. And if you use Flask, you're missing out on the entire Django ecosystem of apps that make heavy use of the model layer.

But you dear reader statistically will most likely not hit any of these scalability issues (aside from the frontend ones). So don't feel bad picking Django, it's an excellent framework regardless.

Re: Flask 1.0 Released

#100

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

_diyu wrote: post #68
nickjj wrote: post #28

Flask has a stigma for not being that good when building larger apps, but honestly Flask scales really well for that type of use case (coming from a development / maintenance point of view). I have some pretty large Flask apps with dozens of top level dependencies and models spanning across many thousands of lines of code. Even if I don't touch the code base for a few months, it's easy to jump back into it. I'm also…

I think that's more because Flask is a micro web framework whereas Rails is a macro web framework. Sinatra, Express, and Compojure are micro frameworks in the same vein as Flask, and they encourage simplicity of mental model over batteries-included comprehensiveness of features that you find in Rails, Sails, and Django. In general I prefer some kind of a middle ground but I don't think there's middle-ground framework…

Tornado fits that middle ground sweet spot for me, in a lot of ways. Its lightweight to learn, but includes a surprisingly good number of really helpful stuff for web apps.

One of those things is its wonderfully simple oath2 helpers (the simplest I've seen, really).

You'll still have to bring your own model layer though. And its ecosystem isn't as rich as flask. That is a shame, because its a wonderful little framework.

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