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Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

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Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#251

Post by mark-r »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #152
protonimitate wrote: post #3

Glad to see an active approach is being taken. SO is a great resource and contains some of the best information on the web IRT programming. If there was only one thing I could change it would be this: If someone marks a question as duplicate, and closes, make them provide a link to the 'original' question and a brief summary as to why it is a duplicate. Closing something as duplicate and then forcing the user who sub…

This! I have had several instances where some petty tyrant decided my question was a duplicate without providing proof. I questioned it and was given some snarky answer with a question number that was obviously dug up after my response. Looking at that question, it was clear that it was nothing like mine. On other occasions, when a link was provided, if you squinted, you might see the relationship but, for the life o…

I've seen questions closed as duplicates just because the answers are the same. That's insane.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#253

Post by Gene5ive »

The support department for the software company I work for basically gave up having a dedicated team to answer SO questions because the endless bad attitudes we encountered made it not worth it anymore. Support means encouragement and we didn't want to encourage people to interact with us on SO if it meant bringing potential customers into a hostile environment.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#254

Post by kapauldo »

mehrdadn wrote: post #246
warent wrote: post #45

I've experienced a form of hostility in StackOverflow just recently--as in a couple of days ago. On a whim, I visited the website and answered a couple questions, something I'd never done before. I realized it was actually a lot of fun, so I started rapidly answering the all JavaScript questions I could as they were asked. Suddenly a "higher ranking" individual started leaving comments on my answers that I needed to…

Related to this, I'm sick of the moderators deleting comments and moving discussions to chats on a whim just because they're seeing too many comment. They don't seem to realize they're not helping anybody; they keep doing this as if it's Truth ordered by God. Like, StackExchange admins: If you're getting flags, there's offensive material, the comments are blatantly off-topic, etc., then OK, I get that; you can step i…

Totally agree. It attracts a-holes as moderators.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#255

Post by Pamar »

nagVenkat wrote: post #13

Some personal thoughts: I got downvoted for answering some simple questions at stackoverflow.com for encouraging low quality questions. This was discussed in the article. I can see why some people can get hostile as some questions are framed as please solve this for me. Usually people ask the posters to tell them what they had done but the tone of that request can be harsh. I think the elitism is most prevalent in st…

About your last comment: I respectfully disagree. I dabble in a handful of other stack sites, but the only one I have some real experience with (apart from SO itself) is the one devoted to tabletop roleplay gaming.

(I have a score of ~3500 on SO and ~2800 on RPG - i.e. respectively top 7% and top 13% just to give you an idea).

On the RPG site, especially in the last couple of years at least, there seems to be a certain fanatism among moderators in sticking to the most literal interpretation of the "rules" (e.g.: if a question is about "what system you would use simulate movie X?" it is strictly verboten to answer unless you describe having extensive experience with the system you suggest).

Rules and "quality" are fine, except that while I can understand that SO is used almost exclusively for job-related questions, so the quality of a question can potentially cost you much... I doubt that anyone will have their career ruined if they pick the wrong edition of D&D to replay Game of Thrones or - perish the though - miss some important errata on elvish footgear when creating their next character.

(I also dabble in a few more, like japanese language and martial arts but they are either less strict in general, better mannered or maybe there is so little traffic that moderators have no reason to obsess about "quality").

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#256

Post by Keyframe »

One (maybe interesting) approach would be to reset points and power every so often. Once or twice a year? For past achievements have them as a badge inside a profile of a user, not visible on the comments/answers section. That way, users would have to keep working at maintaining their power status. Not like it's now, grind to the status and act like a roman senator.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#257

Post by saint_fiasco »

leereeves wrote: post #237
saint_fiasco wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So let's not do that. Instead of waiting for minorities to speak up, you should complain right away when an online environment turns toxic. Since we were not aware until today that minorities received more hostility on SO, that means users really don't know other users' gender and ethnicity, so it's not like anyone will call you a sissy girl for speaking up.

We have been complaining about hostility on SO for years. It's debatable whether women and minorities actually do receive more hostility on SO, they're more likely to speak up, or SO's management is simply more responsive to their complaints.

It's also debatable whether we are living in a simulation or we are actually brains in a jar, or maybe only you are real and I'm a conversational AI.

But it's pointless to debate things that don't and can't change what we choose to do. Notice that all three of your proposed hypothesis can't change the fact that SO isn't very welcoming and they want to change that.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#258

Post by leereeves »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #257
leereeves wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been complaining about hostility on SO for years. It's debatable whether women and minorities actually do receive more hostility on SO, they're more likely to speak up, or SO's management is simply more responsive to their complaints.

It's also debatable whether we are living in a simulation or we are actually brains in a jar, or maybe only you are real and I'm a conversational AI. But it's pointless to debate things that don't and can't change what we choose to do. Notice that all three of your proposed hypothesis can't change the fact that SO isn't very welcoming and they want to change that.

Awareness of this phenomenon can change what we choose to do.

Rather than ignoring or mocking complaints from white men, we could choose to listen.

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#259

Post by the8472 »

mmd45 wrote: post #238
the8472 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please provide a way to flag a question You can do those with prose. Explain that you know what you're doing. Give an underlying reason that shows that your X is an X. Answerers can only act on a) the information you provide b) heuristics they have based on seeing many other questions. If you do not provide a) then they'll have to fall back on b)

that invites a debate about the premise. i shouldn't need to justify my constraints. i should be able to pose a problem and STATE the constraints. if you don't believe that my constraints are real then you can feel free to not answer my question but the SO regulars always feel the need to interact even when they have nothing to add.

> if you don't believe that my constraints are real then you can feel free to not answer my question

But XY-problems exist and are not uncommon. Overconstrained questions also exist. How are people supposed to know that yours is not one of those without additional information?

Re: Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming – It’s Time for That to Change

#260

Post by wvenable »

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #174

"You're driving our car wrong." This blog post is all about how the users need to alter the way they use the product. I've always been a firm believer than software should be intuitive and should influence the users to use the software in the way the developers want. If you want users to act more kindly and welcoming, incentivize that behavior. Some ideas for SO: - Create new reputational incentives for kindness - Of…

That's interesting since Joel himself made the point about how software design influences community in 2003: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/03/03/building-communiti...
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