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Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

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131–140 of 193 posts

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#131

Surely a large part of the problem is thinking it's OK to leave the the hire scooters on public property wherever is convenient for the customer. Can't wait for the flying-vehicle startup. It's another tragedy of the common. BTW "sidewalks" are also known as "footpaths" and "roads" as "carriageways" in countries that speak British English.

Just like "free" car parking, but to a much smaller scale.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#133
post #71

Now we just need to start arresting people for jaywalking across the sidewalk.

I'm not sure if this is a remark in jest, but here are a few good pieces on the topic of jaywalking:

1. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/04/invention-jay...

2. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/11/where-jaywalking-is-n...

3. https://www.mnn.com/green-tech/transportation/blogs/on-a-sus...

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#134
post #19

I hate these scooters with a passion. People litter them all over, I even saw one tossed into the street.

I think that the people using the scooters and the people putting them in the street/garbage/water/trees are two different groups of people.

I'd wager that a large proportion of those people who dump them like garbage are intoxicated. Perhaps it's alcohol that is the bigger problem?

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? It's the furthest thing possible from safe to do something that makes you automatically liable for any incident.

You're the one choosing to drive a dangerous vehicle, why should other people be responsible ?

One vehicle is dangerous to the driver. The other vehicle is dangerous to other drivers.

Which one are you saying should be responsible here?

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#136
post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

It’s insane how we don’t even notice how much public space is devoted to cars:

For a typical residential street, it’s 2/3: two lanes of traffic, two lanes for parking, vs two sidewalks. All are about the same width.

That primacy of the car is what needs to change. Autonomous driving could go a long way, by allowing offside parking and increased utilization of shared cars. But even before, just inconveniencing drivers by eliminating one lane of parking would open up enough space to accommodate safe bike and scooter lanes.

Next up is the wasteland of endless parking lots the US is so fond of, and that unnecessarily decreases density to maybe a third of what’s easily possible. But it’ll take far more time to heal that particular hellscape.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#137
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ride a lot and in traffic. I've occasionally thought the same thought you're thinking here and to be honest, I will do whatever I think is safest for me. But riding on the sidewalk really does mean that the burden of taking care of pedestrians is all on me. And when I've thought those kinds of thoughts, I have to recognize that it feels very similar to the arguments I hear from motorists when they try and put the b…

I disagree. If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault? Being in a public space necessarily means exercising a degree of care and consideration for other people. From everyone .

I'm not sure where that commenter is posting from, but isn't cycling on the sidewalk _illegal_ in most places (except in sidewalk-inset bike lanes)? It's quite reasonable to walk on a sidewalk without expecting bikes to hit you; they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#138
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. Yeah. I bike on the sidewalk sometimes, but when I do I consider it 100% my responsibility to avoid pedestrians. They're not expecting me and they have no reason to look out for me; it's my job to go slow, watch entrances, and not scare people by blowing pas…

I tried really hard to make it clear that I am looking out for them. Apparently that was insufficient. It is made unnecessarily difficult to look out for someone who is weaving around erratically and completely oblivious to everything around them. I bike on the road. I expect cars to look out for me. Nonetheless, I take measures to make it easy for them to do that. I wear reflective gear and have lights at night. I b…

> There's absolutely no reason that someone on a sidewalk shouldn't expect that another person, whether walking or on a bike, might also need to use the sidewalk

Is cycling on the sidewalk legal in your location? It isn't in most places, as far as I know.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#139
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault? Being in a public space necessarily means exercising a degree of care and consideration for other people. From everyone .

> If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault? No, because the law states that a bike on the road with cars is equal to other vehicles and has no higher priority in regards to right of way. In contrast, a biker on a sidewalk is not considered equal to a pedestrian. In fact, it is illegal in most cases, but probably not illegal or dangerous enough to…

I feel like this is the key distinction. I strongly prefer riding on roads, even when other people think it looks unsafe, for the simple reason that people on the road (generally) follow rules. You can, within reason, tell well in advance what someone is about to do.

I feel much safer in an environment where there are clear rules of engagement that are, by and large, respected.

(Anecdote: my most recent crash was with a scooter, the rider of which was very inexperienced in traffic and reacted to a tight spot by doing exactly the opposite of what they teach you in driver's ed. Feel free to guess whether this was on the road or on a bike path...)

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. Yeah. I bike on the sidewalk sometimes, but when I do I consider it 100% my responsibility to avoid pedestrians. They're not expecting me and they have no reason to look out for me; it's my job to go slow, watch entrances, and not scare people by blowing pas…

Where do you people live where this behaviour is legal?

I was confused about this, too. It's illegal here (unless the sidewalk has an inset bike lane, but they're usually inset to the road instead). You see it occasionally, but I certainly wouldn't expect the people doing it to be so self-righteous about breaking the law.
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