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Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

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Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#91

Post by CalRobert »

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

"only peds belong on sidewalks"

It's worth remembering that peds (otherwise known as "people") used to be able to roam the street freely. Can't find the source now (at work) but in the 1920's a judge in New York bemoaned the then-ridiculous idea that cars would mean children could no longer play in the street, which of course they had every right to do.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#92

Post by Symbiote »

imgabe wrote: post #56
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. Yeah. I bike on the sidewalk sometimes, but when I do I consider it 100% my responsibility to avoid pedestrians. They're not expecting me and they have no reason to look out for me; it's my job to go slow, watch entrances, and not scare people by blowing pas…

I tried really hard to make it clear that I am looking out for them. Apparently that was insufficient. It is made unnecessarily difficult to look out for someone who is weaving around erratically and completely oblivious to everything around them. I bike on the road. I expect cars to look out for me. Nonetheless, I take measures to make it easy for them to do that. I wear reflective gear and have lights at night. I b…

The bigger, more dangerous to others vehicle must look out for smaller ones.

You expect cars to look out for bicycle, and should yourself look out for pedestrians.

I live in Copenhagen, on a road that's a pedestrian zone shopping street. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect pedestrians to look out for cyclists - I'm in their space! So on the last 100m of my journey home, I must cycle at half speed or even walking speed, depending how busy it is.

If cyclists stopped being careful, cycling through the pedestrian zone would eventually get banned, like it is in Britain. (Or else enforced, I don't know if its already banned.)

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#93

Post by dayaz36 »

How are scooters even a public hazard?? Governments just make up non-existent issues whenever there is an industry that they have no control over, then create laws that stifle innovation and create high barriers to entry by creating endless laws that will discourage other startups from entering. This is how oligopolies are created.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#94

Post by michaelmrose »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #86
bigtunacan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the death toll is fairly low and declining, just to be clear, pedestrians do die from being stuck by cyclists. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.citylab.com/amp/article/381...

The article doesn't even talk about deaths, only injuries. Compared to the number of pedestrians killed by motor vehicles the figures seem insignificant. More people die each year from choking.

Getting injured is significant to the people that got injured.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#95

Post by mirimir »

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

> As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that.

If people have bicycles or scooters on sidewalks, they should be walking them, not riding.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#96

Post by rangibaby »

fstuff wrote: post #12
ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…

Japan solved the problem of sharing crowded streets by putting liability on the vehicle every time.

If you are riding a bicycle on the footpath and hit a pedestrian, it is your fault and you are going to be on the hook for a large amount of money. It's the same if cars hit a cyclist or pedestrian.

It's arbitrary but it also makes it safe to cycle because cars are vigilant to not hit pedestrians (contrast with western countries, my experience is in NZ where car drivers bully cyclists)

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#97

Post by usrusr »

mellabo wrote: post #62
s17n wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, you make peds feel unsafe so that you can feel safe.

The risk of a fatality or life changing accident is much much higher for a cyclist colliding with a car, than it is for a pedestrian being hit by a bike

Risk is an aggregate of damage and likelihood. Pedestrians are moving much more erratic than cars. This makes them more dangerous, unless you live in a community so violent that drivers actively harass cyclists.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#98

Post by closeparen »

mattthebaker wrote: post #23
justboxing wrote: post #4

These Electric Scooters in San Francisco have become a total nuisance. I've seen quite a few riders ride them on the sidewalks and 1 person even ran into a dude on a wheelchair who was trying to get onto the sidewalk after crossing the road on his wheelchair. The last safe place for Pedestrians and disabled persons -- the Sidewalk -- is under attack. The startups that have created this nuisance also park these scoote…

Police just need to start issuing tickets. Seems like a solid and easy revenue stream. Both riding on the sidewalk and riding without a helmet is illegal. Haven't seen any rider wearing one. CA Law: "An operator of a motorized scooter must be at least 16 years old, possess a valid drivers license or instruction permit, and wear a helmet. A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not…

"Motorized scooter" in California law is referring to one of these: http://www.vespa.com/us_EN/vespa-models/primavera.html#

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#99

Post by yodsanklai »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #51
imgabe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. That said, Jesus Christ people. Take out your headphones, put your phone away, and freaking pay attention to your surroundings. People wander around like they're the baby from the Popeye cartoons expecting everything else to miraculously flow around them. Forg…

> I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. Yeah. I bike on the sidewalk sometimes, but when I do I consider it 100% my responsibility to avoid pedestrians. They're not expecting me and they have no reason to look out for me; it's my job to go slow, watch entrances, and not scare people by blowing pas…

Same here. If I have to cycle on the sidewalk, I go very slow and I do my best not to scare pedestrians, especially older people who don't feel safe near bikes. Unfortunately, not all cyclists are respectful and it creates tensions. I regularly get scolded by pedestrians.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#100

Post by closeparen »

rangibaby wrote: post #96
fstuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…

Japan solved the problem of sharing crowded streets by putting liability on the vehicle every time. If you are riding a bicycle on the footpath and hit a pedestrian, it is your fault and you are going to be on the hook for a large amount of money. It's the same if cars hit a cyclist or pedestrian. It's arbitrary but it also makes it safe to cycle because cars are vigilant to not hit pedestrians (contrast with western…

Huh? It's the furthest thing possible from safe to do something that makes you automatically liable for any incident.
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