Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#31

Post by imgabe » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

fstuff wrote: post #12

ryanobjc wrote: post #5

I initially was bah humbugy about these scooters, but after reading an article that points out we have acres of space devoted to private automobiles, and that it really wouldn't be hard to accommodate these electric scooters, I changed my mind. They look fun, they seem more flexible than the hard-wired go-bike stations, and they don't seem super expensive. It's pretty obvious that our cities are broken, and SF needs…

>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…

I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians.

That said, Jesus Christ people. Take out your headphones, put your phone away, and freaking pay attention to your surroundings. People wander around like they're the baby from the Popeye cartoons expecting everything else to miraculously flow around them.

Forget about bikes and scooters, it's rude to other pedestrians who may be walking faster, running, or actually paying attention to what they're doing if you're meandering back and forth across the sidewalk and can't even hear someone say "Excuse me". The sidewalk is for walking, yes, but that doesn't mean it's for the exclusive use of any one individual.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#32

Post by c22 » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:20 AM UTC

FooHentai wrote: post #24

gamblor956 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the Old English meaning of the precursor word relevant? The modern word is road and it means thoroughfare.

Right. It's almost like the name of something has no bearing on what the thing could be used for.

I always get a kick out of manipulating widgets on my bank's online "dashboard".

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#33

Post by FooHentai » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #26

FooHentai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're gonna play that silly game, what about roads, from the old English rād meaning 'journey on horseback'.

What's your point? When roads were reserved for horses, would you ride your donkey on the sidewalk?

Yes, thank you. That is exactly my point. The name of 'sidewalk' has no bearing on what you could use the sidewalk for.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#34

Post by gkoberger » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

physcab wrote: post #19

I hate these scooters with a passion. People litter them all over, I even saw one tossed into the street.

I think that the people using the scooters and the people putting them in the street/garbage/water/trees are two different groups of people.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#35

Post by scarecrowbob » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:40 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #31

fstuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…

I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. That said, Jesus Christ people. Take out your headphones, put your phone away, and freaking pay attention to your surroundings. People wander around like they're the baby from the Popeye cartoons expecting everything else to miraculously flow around them. Forg…

I ride a lot and in traffic. I've occasionally thought the same thought you're thinking here and to be honest, I will do whatever I think is safest for me.

But riding on the sidewalk really does mean that the burden of taking care of pedestrians is all on me. And when I've thought those kinds of thoughts, I have to recognize that it feels very similar to the arguments I hear from motorists when they try and put the burden of safety on cyclists who are legitimately on the roads. If I'm not supposed to be somewhere, it's a bad attitude for me to even start down the road of thought that blames the pedestrians for my treatment of their safety.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#36

Post by zethraeus » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

This article makes some throwaway concession to the 'far less dire consequences' but this is huge.

These vehicles have far fewer negative externalities than cars. People don't die when they get hit by scooters and bikes. We can charge them with renewable energy. They don't take space from pedestrians as cars do.

These are a huge clear good for cities. (And yes, people should gtfo the sidewalk, companies should educate as such, and there should be tickets for people who make others less safe.)

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#37

Post by imgabe » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 1:43 AM UTC

scarecrowbob wrote: post #35

imgabe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bike commute. I stay on the road as much as possible, but there's parts where it's impractical. So, I get on the sidewalk, go slow, and yield to pedestrians. That said, Jesus Christ people. Take out your headphones, put your phone away, and freaking pay attention to your surroundings. People wander around like they're the baby from the Popeye cartoons expecting everything else to miraculously flow around them. Forg…

I ride a lot and in traffic. I've occasionally thought the same thought you're thinking here and to be honest, I will do whatever I think is safest for me. But riding on the sidewalk really does mean that the burden of taking care of pedestrians is all on me. And when I've thought those kinds of thoughts, I have to recognize that it feels very similar to the arguments I hear from motorists when they try and put the b…

I disagree. If you were biking around staring at your phone and weaving into oncoming traffic, is that someone else's fault?

Being in a public space necessarily means exercising a degree of care and consideration for other people. From everyone.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#38

Post by fstuff » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 2:00 AM UTC

hndamien wrote: post #28

fstuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As for the self righteousness of "only peds belong on sidewalks", I get tired of that. I strongly disagree with this. I've owned an electric scooter for over a year now and I learned real fast that it's super dangerous to ride on the sidewalk. The problem with pedestrians is that they are not looking out for scooters. People will wander into your path and depending on how fast you're going you may collide. Also you…

Drive slower around pedestrians. The burden is on you.

Agreed, if I go on the sidewalk I never go faster than walking speed but only if the sidewalk is clear. I'll walk it if there's people on the sidewalk.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#39

Post by habosa » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 2:13 AM UTC

I've ridden a few of these. They're pretty fun and cheap. I actually like the model for trips in the 1mi range. In an ideal world full of well behaved people and good intentions I'd keep them around.

But am I the only one that has a problem with the complete hubris shown by these companies. Raise $100M, buy thousands of $500 Chinese scooters, drop them on the city sidewalks and hope everyone just deals with it.

Why can you disrupt life in a city just because you have a lot of VC money? What about when all the competitors come and we're drowning in low quality scooters?

And let's not kid ourselves that these scooters will even remain loved. Right now they're unsustainability cheap and vulnerable. Bird and Spin are undoubtedly bleeding money. When they come back and triple the prices and change the model we'll see we've sold our sidewalks for nothing.

Re: Electric scooter “mayhem” sounds like when cars were introduced

#40

Post by rdiddly » Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

Sort of an empty comparison to the automobile. Similar in the fact that it's being thrown out into the world without a plan, and there's no space for them, and there's an outcry. Different because they're a lot less deadly.

The proliferation of private automobiles is a net negative for the world, so if these scooters displace (i.e. take away space from) cars, they're good. If they displace, hassle or inconvenience pedestrians or cyclists in any way, they're bad.

I don't hold out a lot of hope for them to change the world per se. I mean sheeeit, people trying to ride bikes at 15mph (which were the original reason for paving roads, no less) have been fighting for a space that's not filled with 40mph cars or 3mph walkers for years and getting mostly nowhere. To properly integrate scooters you would need basically a two-lane bike lane - one lane for bikes (10-25mph) and one for scooters (less than that, I assume). In a lot of places the automotive demographic has such a stranglehold on the polity, we can't even get a one-lane bike lane.

The only way it would work is if they end up being ragingly popular... like maybe if something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all trips started being done by scooter, that would get the attention of the scooter-lane-planners. Though there is still the problem of "where does the capital come from?" when every municipality is seemingly always broke ever since 2008...