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Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

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Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#141

Post by lmm »

vbezhenar wrote: post #68
pradn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit is to more easily draw international tourists and conduct business around the world. Most rich countries use the Latin alphabet, so it's a bid to move away from the Russosphere.

I'm sure that there are many titles in English for international tourists. I can't tell for entire country, but in Astana (capital) almost every title contains English translation (or transliteration) and I think that it's better approach. May be English tourists who visited Kazakhstan will correct me.

I went to Chimkent/Shymkent and Almaty (the old capital - Astana is a new, planned city) as a tourist. I didn't see much in the Latin alphabet.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#142

Post by lmm »

bobthepanda wrote: post #49
emodendroket wrote: post #6

The costs are not purely economic -- you will have people struggle to read in the new script and make old texts inaccessible to young people. Additionally, this isn't a case like Chinese where Romanization has the benefit of making it easier to acquire literacy. What is the benefit of this change? I find the claim in this article that using the same script to write their language is going to bring them closer to West…

Turkic languages are split between Cyrillic, Latin, and Arabic-based scripts. Kazakhs in Turkey, for example, already write in Latin script. Is there an issue with Turkish scholarship of history since Ataturk pushed Latin-based alphabet?

I've read comments here bemoaning that Turkish people can't read their grandparents' books. But for academic historians the bigger problem is whether the new constitution makes accurate history illegal.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#143

Post by gsich »

jsgo wrote: post #33
jsgo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I speak English only. I find it much easier to translate either online or via English-to-X dictionary if the other language uses Latin script. Could it be done? I'm sure it is possible, but without previously interacting with them, not easily. I'll say this, for work I travel to Montreal at moderately regular intervals. Because everything is in French, it makes it a bit harder, but I can either: a) infer based off si…

Okay, how about this then: If it is in Latin script, the tourists from countries with Latin-based languages can phonetically butcher whatever it is they're attempting to communicate with the other party. If it is in Cyrillic script, the tourists from countries with Latin-based languages can just stare at a person blankly or point at words on paper/signage if the other party is close enough. Provided they traveled at…

Cyrillic is not hard to learn.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#144

Post by lmm »

badminton1 wrote: post #40

Turkey went through a similar process. Reasons included a desire to increase literacy rate and a creating a new national identity. This doesn't really apply to Kazakhstan, a country that already has a good literacy rate.

Forming a national identity is still pretty important for Kazakhstan, which lives in the shadow of Russia. That Nazarbayev apparently deferred to the popular will on this issue is promising if the nation is to outlast him.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#145

Post by hourislate »

vbezhenar wrote: post #17

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

It might be a way to shed the yoke around their neck of Russian Imperialism. After all Putin did threaten them in a round about manner only a couple of years ago. I would like to see Ukraine also adopt this strategy. It is an effective method to distance oneself from Russia.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#146

Post by emodendroket »

parliament32 wrote: post #94
emodendroket wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not like people are going to refuse to trade with the US because we have customary units, realistically. That's the benefit of being the world's richest country and not a small Central Asian one.

Foreign trade is, interestingly enough, considered the most important reason to convert the US to the metric system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat... Apart from trade though, this issue might cause some countries to hesitate to work with the US for scientific research or related initiatives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...

The world's largest consumer market, among other things, more than make up for the inconvenience of specifying that a screw is one-eighth of an inch.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#147

Post by azangru »

kolinko wrote: post #137
vbezhenar wrote: post #17

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

The difference is that there is little political/military threat from France towards Canada. I'm Polish, and thanks to the latin alphabet we're using, the country has it much easier to be close to the west. People have easier time learning English, and it eases the communication a lot. If we were using cyrylic, the country would be naturally leaning more towards Russia - which, considering the history, wouldn't be go…

> People have easier time learning English, and it eases the communication a lot

Is this really so? Are you sure having a different alphabet would make it harder for people to learn a western language? I am Russian, and I can safely say that pretty much every literate adult in Russia who has at least a basic school education can read Latin letters just fine, because there is no way around it; the alphabet is taught at school.

If an argument is to be made at all, it's probably that it may be harder for the foreigners, never trained in reading Cyrillic, to start reading it, but I am not sure it's of particular concern. I wouldn't expect significant numbers of people flock to learn Russian (or Kazakh) as a foreign language anyway, because why should they?

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#148

Post by linkmotif »

kolinko wrote: post #137
vbezhenar wrote: post #17

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

The difference is that there is little political/military threat from France towards Canada. I'm Polish, and thanks to the latin alphabet we're using, the country has it much easier to be close to the west. People have easier time learning English, and it eases the communication a lot. If we were using cyrylic, the country would be naturally leaning more towards Russia - which, considering the history, wouldn't be go…

> A few billion in costs of such changes, even for a poor country, will produce a good ROI

Strictly from this perspective alone this change is a no brainer investment.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#149

Post by emodendroket »

amaccuish wrote: post #106
emodendroket wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are going to pick just one, English is a pretty good choice, because there are few places you can go where absolutely nobody speaks it.

Actually it's more common than you think. I've lived in Russia, Germany and France, each with varying levels of proficiency in English. Many people know basic English but not much more. If you're not a tourist then it's more likely than not that someone you meet has a low level of English.

I've never been to Europe but I have spent time in Asia. It is certainly true that not everyone speaks English and some people may speak English only at a rudimentary level -- but how many languages give you the ability to expect even that? I'd bet that English is also very near the top, if not at the top, of the list of languages used to conduct conversations where neither speaker is native.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#150

Post by kolinko »

vbezhenar wrote: post #60
adventured wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When overwhelming majority of people speak Russian and Russia is the most important trade partner, I think that it's only logical to have Russian as one of the official languages in the country It makes perfect sense if you want to move away from Russia to dramatically broaden your national potential over time. Russia has a very modest economy versus its population size. Canada and South Korea have overtaken it, an…

You can move away from Russia as a person. You can't move away from Russia as a country. Those countries are just next to one other, their border probably longer than Europe's perimeter. You have to think for hundreds of years when you're talking about breaking relationships between nations. Putin will die in max 30 years, probably earlier. He's extremely unlikely to be the next Russia's President. Russia might turn…

Many countries did - see Estonia, or Poland.

My parents' generation in Poland used to speak and read Russian, have Russian friends and so on. The majority of "trade" was also with Russia.

Nowadays, everyone learns English, the new generation doesn't read cyrylic. The trade between us and Russia is a weak shadow of it used to be.

Feels kind of like breaking up with an abusive partner, who kept you under lock for many years, telling you they are the best that can ever happen to you, and that you'll never be happy with anyone else ;)

Changing the alphabet is one of the steps towards building trade and relationships with English-speaking world. Good for them.

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