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Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

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Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#121

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

Any major change to a standard, now matter how urgent or necessary, comes with these problems. As I like to joke, the reason God was able to finish the earth in only six days is that He didn't have to worry about backward compatibility.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. When attempting to pattern match signs it's easier to match similar letters than symbols that appaear totally abstract. It probably has something to do with short term memory being able to hold 5-9 things. Also many languages use enough similar words (i.e. cognates) that you can use context to guess at the meaning.

https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ng%C3%B4_%C4%90%C3%ACnh_Di%E1%... Can you make out anything in this article other than personal names?

In my experience, when I was in Vietnam I was able to read and understand menus and road signs fairly easy, despite not speaking a word of Vietnamese. I don't think that would've been the same if they used a non-latin alphabet.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#123
post #104
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Russia send Kazakh people to gulags for speaking/teaching own language like it did in Poland, Ukraine and many other places? Might have something to do with resentment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

During Stalin, it was the general policy to suppress national languages. https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev...

That article doesn't really say that.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#124

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

[deleted]

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkic languages are split between Cyrillic, Latin, and Arabic-based scripts. Kazakhs in Turkey, for example, already write in Latin script. Is there an issue with Turkish scholarship of history since Ataturk pushed Latin-based alphabet?

According to the article, Turkish literacy was low at the time that change was enacted. Of course historians will cope but I'm talking about everyday people here.

Sure, but existing Latin scripts have their own equivalents; your everyday person probably could not read Fraktur, for example, and you'd be hard pressed to find a person who can read the original Beowulf: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Be.... Even scripts that haven't changed all that much, like Classical Chinese, are hard to read for modern readers without training because it is so archaic, even for those who use Traditional.

But that's why we have printing presses that make translations into contemporary scripts and vernaculars.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#126

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

I was in Moldova a few years back and the friends I was visiting only spoke Romanian. Almost all native Moldovans speak Russian and Romanian (and can read/write both alphabets). Some people would only talk to my friends in Russian though, even when they kept saying they only knew Romanian. One of my friends said this was a political thing, with some people using the choice of their default language being who they sup…

I might imagine that someone would refuse to speak Russian to underline his anti-Russian position, but I never met such a person.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#127

The costs are not purely economic -- you will have people struggle to read in the new script and make old texts inaccessible to young people. Additionally, this isn't a case like Chinese where Romanization has the benefit of making it easier to acquire literacy. What is the benefit of this change? I find the claim in this article that using the same script to write their language is going to bring them closer to West…

> What is the benefit of this change? Protecting themselves from Russian insurgency, among other reasons. Kazakhstan had protected themselves before, shutting down Russian-inspired "People Republic".

How would this help with any kind of Russian insurgency, espionage, etc. at all?

According to the article there is 20% of ethnic Russians and more fluent Russian speakers (94%) than Kazakh speakers (74%).

Russian is also a co-official language in Kazkhstan and I can't find anything about getting rid of that.

Latin (and Cyrillic) alphabet is also no cipher.

It's easy to learn one when you know the other, the shapes are similar, some letters are shared (some with same, some with different sounds), etc. The difference could be even said to be cosmetic at best, unlike Korean, Chinese or Arabic scripts that are completely different shapes and styles and hand moves when writing and so on.

If you learn Russian in a Polish school as a second foreign language (second to German or English, as I did) it goes at a snail's pace of two or three lesson per week but Cyrillic is like a month or two of that at best.

Any Russian who knows at all any of the big western languages (Spanish, French, German, English) or one of the right Slavic ones (the ones not using only Cyrillic in their writing) also already knows the Latin script.

Moldova and Azerbaijan using Latin script didn't help with Transnistria and Artsakh at all.

Georgian script[0] is also nothing like Cyrillic or Latin (I know them both but at Georgian I can only stare blankly) but that hasn't helped with Abkhazia or South Ossetia.

If a Russian spy, insurgent or whatever wants to blend in, operate or whatever somewhere, he probably can do it easier in Kazakhstan than in those disputed regions.

If anything, sidelining Russian artificially because "Latin = West = good = we want" is only giving Russia a really good excuse of caring about ethnic Russians (not that they needed any big one like that for Crimea where Cyrillic and Russian weren't sidelined at all).

It's also bad from a practicality standpoint, forcing everyone to pick up Latin script suddenly (while before now the two main languages used the same one) and paying for replacing all the plaques and official books and documents and such. It won't help tourists either, if you don't know Kazakh then you just don't. I can read Cyrillic and can read some Russian very slowly by my crappy basic skills from school years and using Polish as a crutch but I can't read Kazakh at all.

You can clutch your way between very many European languages (and the Cyrillic/Latin split in the Slavic group is the only major roadblock in a single group to doing this that I know of, as in - the script is the big problem, not the language itself) but looking at Kazakh is as good as looking at Turkish or Vietnamese or Malay or transcribed Chinese. You get maybe an occasional global-y word like hamburger, pizza, republic or computer at best.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_scripts

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#128
post #66

I'm ethnical Russian living in Kazakhstan and I think that it's not a very wise decision. As correctly written in the article, overwhelming majority of Kazakhstani citizens speak and write Russian well. I just don't see any point with this change, but costs are tremendous, you have to rewrite every single book including learning books, you have to replace every street plate. When overwhelming majority of people speak…

Did Russia send Kazakh people to gulags for speaking/teaching own language like it did in Poland, Ukraine and many other places? Might have something to do with resentment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

I don't think that anyone was prosecuted strictly because of speaking/teaching language. But there were Kazakh intelligence (who probably promoted language among other national agendas) prosecuted for opposing soviet regime. Again, I don't think that language itself has anything with it. That said, yes, USSR forced other nations to adapt Russian language and it's understandable that those nations didn't like it. But it was almost a century ago, we are living in current conditions, so it's wiser to remember the past, but plan the future according to current realities, not some 100-year old dreams.

Re: Kazakhstan is changing its alphabet from Cyrillic to Latin-based

#129
Isn't it better/easier to type at a keyboard using a latin alphabet rather than Cyrilic?

There was once a guy trying to type Russian on my computer and he had to go to a website to type it. While when using a latin alphabet you can easily type Romanian with a US or French keyboard or whatever latin based keyboard.

This benefit is huge.

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