90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies • Hacker News Board

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#81

Post by mLuby » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #43

nathan_long wrote: post #18

Oh, tech companies. If only there were a way to have conversations about, create, and transmit computer programs using some kind of long-distance network. Maybe we could break the data up into "packets". Just thinking out loud here. Then maybe everyone creating textual output for a living wouldn't have to transport their physical body to an office. We can dream.

What's interesting is that I routinely see comments little different from this one. Just as routinely, companies choose to pay whole multiles times as much for engineers in-person instead of remote. Is it possible that we're missing something in this? And that there might be more to this than companies being unwilling to try remote workers? I know my own experiences with working remotely and having remote colleagues…

The benefits of remote work go disproportionately to workers, while the detriments seem to fall toward managers. Since it's managers deciding whether to hire remote or on-site, it's not that surprising that they act in their own interest and hire on-site, even if it's more expensive.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#82

Post by eecsninja » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

jacobkg wrote: post #3

I commuted 90 minutes each way for a year (120 miles round trip) in SoCal. The time spent driving wasn't that bad; I spent that time listening to books on Audible. The problem was everything else that had to give because I was spending that time driving. I couldn't cook dinner or spend much time with friends. It was tough to stay after work or develop friendships with coworkers because we were so geographically separ…

This was why I never got that much value out of being in Silicon Valley beyond my day job. So much of the hot new startup activity was in SF. I lived and worked in the South Bay. While I'd have liked to attend some tech talks in SF, it was not practical for me to leave work early to get there on time, and then figure out how to get back.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#83

Post by moultano » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #64

sampo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it'll only stop when everyone says enough is enough and leaves Or, alternatively, when enough people start voting in politicians who would allow building lots of new homes in central locations. Manhattan has 3.9× the density of San Francisco. At Manhattan density, the City of San Francisco could house 2.5 million more people.

This is such a tiresome argument. Even if you could suddenly build all of the housing required to reduce prices on a short timescale, you'd have to solve the infrastructural problems that come with it (roads and transit), and convince developers to build into a massive loss (i.e. I am a developer, and you expect me to build and finance at today's costs, and pay for it with tomorrow's lower rents). Construction is a s…

Building more housing decreases traffic as people move to shorten their commutes. Building offices without housing is what increases traffic, which is what most cities in the bay are currently doing.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#84

Post by aphextron » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

fokinsean wrote: post #8

I recently had an opportunity to move out to the Bay Area with my current job (I am currently at a satellite office). The commute time combined with CoL and a few other factors made the decision easy to not go. I currently have a 3 minute commute and I would honestly lose my mind if I had to commute 90 mins one way. I have also been seeing a general rise of articles mentioning how many people are leaving, how insane…

>. I have also been seeing a general rise of articles mentioning how many people are leaving, how insane the commutes are becoming, and general unpleasantness of living there if you aren't in the top 10%.

But if you are in the top 10%, life is amazing here. It's an absolute paradise. Every single time I'm sitting in traffic hating my life, I try to do a pro/con on getting the hell out of here. Every single time I just can't justify it. The weather, the scenery, the ocean, the food, the people, the tech. There is literally nowhere else in the US even remotely on par. LA is pretty close, but the bay is much more "livable" IMO.

People may be leaving in droves, but it's only because they have to, not really because they want to.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#85

Post by nathan_long » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

guiomie wrote: post #57

thirduncle wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ridiculous salary and equity while I'm here would be foolish to pass up So - how much of the "ridiculous" salary is left after subtracting living costs and taxes, actually?

Much more than other places in the US. I keep seeing this type of comment, do the math, 2-3X salary increase, rent 2X increase, but rent is only ~25% of your salary, cost of things around ~25% higher. You are much better of in Silicon Valley as a techy in general.

Now factor in the fact that you spend 15 hours a week driving - not working, jogging, cooking, singing, or making friends. Factor in the gas and maintenance for your car and the medical costs to you for your sedentary time and to society for your exhaust.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#86

Post by abritinthebay » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

eecsninja wrote: post #65

gresrun wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I chose to move out here because it was the best career move I could make. Having a FANG company on my resume plus the ridiculous salary and equity while I'm here would be foolish to pass up.

I grew up in the Bay Area. Spent several years at a FAANG company. About 2/3 of the time, I lived with my parents. The remainder was with housemates. In my early 30s, I decided that I couldn't continue living with parents, while there wasn't any place in the BA that I cared to pay money to live in. Now I live in NYC, same salary, but finally have my own place that's not shared with others. I live in a 30th floor stud…

Average rent in NYC - $3,375

Average rent in SF - $3,558

I don't know your situation but NYC is basically in the same boat (just with a better rail system).

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#87

Post by tlrobinson » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

It will be interesting to see the effect fully autonomous vehicles (eventually) have on traffic/commuting.

If you can just nap or get work done while commuting you might not mind a 90-minute commute as much.

On the other hand, if you can’t afford an autonomous car and have to commute it will be even more hellish...

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#88

Post by booleandilemma » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

nathan_long wrote: post #18

Oh, tech companies. If only there were a way to have conversations about, create, and transmit computer programs using some kind of long-distance network. Maybe we could break the data up into "packets". Just thinking out loud here. Then maybe everyone creating textual output for a living wouldn't have to transport their physical body to an office. We can dream.

I feel this every time I have to go to the office and it’s raining hard out. I think, why do we do this to ourselves?

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#89

Post by replicatorblog » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #14

replicatorblog wrote: post #6

FWIW, this is also true in Boston. I commute from southern NH to Harvard Sq. every day. Unless you have two substantial incomes, or are ok with sub-par schools and a tiny space, it's hard to live close to most economically dynamic cities.

No, this is because you chose to live extremely far away! There are plenty of places in Massachusetts that are closer and affordable, with decent schools. Every employee I've had who commuted from NH to Boston wound up pretty miserable because of the commute.

Serious question, what towns would you recommend. I don't deny I'm making a consumer choice, and said so in my comment.

When I lived in Houston, I lived in a beautiful flat, a 20 minute walk from my office, and did so making the equivalent of $18/hr. I can't think of many places that'd be possible in the Boston area.

Re: 90-minute ‘super commutes’ more common as Bay Area housing shortage intensifies

#90

Post by free652 » Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #22

90 minutes is common if you work in NYC and have a suburban home.

An hour commute is normal within NYC. My commute on average was 50 minutes for the last 20years, door to door. 10 mins walk to a train or a bus, 30 mins ride, 10mins walk to the desk.

Now I have a house in Staten Island and it’s still 50 minutes - though I can cheat a bit by driving to the bus. It’s actually a 15 mins walk, but I don’t mind it.