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Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

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Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#261
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNG misses the win from regenerative braking on a massive vehicle in traffic. That’s going to reduce the fuel burned even if the systems are comparable in emissions and also reduces the particulate emissions from brake pads which are linked to various health problems.

> CNG misses the win from regenerative braking on a massive vehicle in traffic CNG hybrid busses are gaining traction where I'm from in Europe https://www.vanhool.be/en/public-transport/exquicity-brt/cng...

Good clarification: I should have specified that as direct drive since hybrid approaches can clearly make sense and I'd bet can be easier to engineer since the engine doesn't need to handle variable speed and power demands.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#262
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I feel the US is the closest example in the modern world to capitalism unchecked - with both the pros and cons that entails. Please enlighten me which parts of the 'pros of capitalism' I'm missing out on as a non-US citizen, because I definitely don't see many, if any at all.

"Pros" are subjective, of course. But if you ask an American to describe why US is great, it would be things like: * Largest economy on the planet * Biggest and most well known tech companies (or companies in general) * Majority of the top research universities * Quality of medical system (if you can pay!) * And so on For us in tech, living in the US is no comparison - it's the best place to be an engineer by a long…

I don't feel any of these things provide people with more or better opportunities than those I have here, or elsewhere in many western-European or Asian countries.

The universities here are great, and actually rank equal to or better than all but a handful of US ones. The quality and availability of health care is basically the same, for a much lower price. Even for rare treatment options that are only available abroad (e.g. in the US), which are covered through regular health insurance. There are many high-tech companies in countries like the UK, Germany, Scaninavia, Netherlands, etc. Maybe not as many software companies as in Silicon Valley, but those only employ a tiny percentage of people. If you have a university or college degree you can make a great living here, and your standard of living is most definitely a lot better than in Silicon Valley. I know because I travel there regularly for work and have many direct colleagues who live and work there, some who transfered from here, and I know how much they make and what their cost of living is.

Having 'more of X', 'biggest of', 'best of', 'largest economy' have exactly zero meaning in the context of the lives of individual people. Just looking around what we have here, and what you have in the US, there are no 'pros of capitalism unchecked' that are exclusive to the US for the vast majority of people. There are many cons though.

There reason for my somewhat snarky original comment is that I honestly don't think anyone could come up with any factual, comprehensive facts that prove that the US has any exclusive benefits from 'capitalism unchecked'. In fact, most lists (per capita income, poverty, cost of living, education, vertical mobility, health care, and maybe most importantly: happiness) the US is not even near the top.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#263
post #251
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

As someone who generates a lot of waste - environmental responsibility just doesn't factor into my consumption decisions. I work from home so I have the A/C set to be fairly cold. I enjoy a specific brand of bottled water. A major online retailer sells this water cheaper than my local store. I drive a car that gets about 15mpg because I enjoy driving it. I generate approx 13 gallons of trash per day. This is mostly s…

Artificial scarcity of garbage disposal maybe? Where I live in Australia, you wouldn't be able to put 13 gallons of trash a day in a bin. The trash bin has maybe 20-30 gallons total and gets taken every other week. The recycling and compost are larger and get taken more often. You could produce more garbage of course, but then it's up to you to drive to the tip and you'll have to pay to drop stuff off.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#264
post #48

What's sad is that the majority of electric buses being purchased both in America and around the globe aren't manufactured in the US. We have a Silicon Valley company, Tesla, that kicked off the world-wide move to battery powered autos. Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? There are a few California companies on this list but they're tiny. Here in Michigan the leading player is French and…

> Why is there not a US company recognized as the leader in buses? The US barely uses buses! It'd be surprising if a US company _was_ big in buses, really. Bus innovation mostly happens in countries with extensive public transport systems, as you'd expect; in all but a few cities, the US's is very limited. The US is also not particularly enthusiastic about tackling global warming relative to the rest of the developed…

That might be true for city buses, but I think every public school operates at least one school bus. Especially in the rural parts of the country. School buses seem like an easy target for electrification ("think of the children", etc.).

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#265
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

I work in a bank. They keep it so cold inside in the summer that employees are forced to have space heaters in their offices to keep from shivering all day. All in hopes that a customer who comes in from the outside heat will feel comfortable for the less than 5 minutes that they are inside. The amount of waste is unreal and disgusting. I was laughed at the other day by a coworker because I commented on how much ener…

At least in commercial buildings in humid climates, building air is cooled by industrial chillers to lower humidty to acceptable levels (chiefly to inhibit mold growth I think), then the air is heated for comfort. So it would actually use more energy to make these spaces warmer. This is what I have been told by some building engineers/architects.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#266
post #251
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

As someone who generates a lot of waste - environmental responsibility just doesn't factor into my consumption decisions. I work from home so I have the A/C set to be fairly cold. I enjoy a specific brand of bottled water. A major online retailer sells this water cheaper than my local store. I drive a car that gets about 15mpg because I enjoy driving it. I generate approx 13 gallons of trash per day. This is mostly s…

While I don't dispute that economic incentives are important in changing people's behavior on large scales... on a purely individual level, whatever happened to doing something because it's the right thing to do? You're not some self-serving automaton. You're aware that these practices produce unnecessary waste. Is your tap water unsafe to consume?

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a bank. They keep it so cold inside in the summer that employees are forced to have space heaters in their offices to keep from shivering all day. All in hopes that a customer who comes in from the outside heat will feel comfortable for the less than 5 minutes that they are inside. The amount of waste is unreal and disgusting. I was laughed at the other day by a coworker because I commented on how much ener…

As long as the energy wasted is clean energy, I guess it should be fine? The sun is shining on Earth at all times and most of the energy is wasted.

Constructing clean energy is not without greenhouse gas emissions, and the wastage of clean energy means that soemone else is required to use dirty energy. Now once we get to a world of 100% clean energy this won't be true, but AFAIK only a few countries have achieved this so far, and it only occurs when weather conditions are just right.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#268
post #251
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level. It has at the individual level too for most individuals. Try to get someone to consider flying less. Look at the size of vehicles on the road. How much meat we eat. Air conditioning to point of needing sweaters in the summer and heating to wearing shorts in the winter. All personal choices anyone can make, no legislation necessary. We can blame fossi…

As someone who generates a lot of waste - environmental responsibility just doesn't factor into my consumption decisions. I work from home so I have the A/C set to be fairly cold. I enjoy a specific brand of bottled water. A major online retailer sells this water cheaper than my local store. I drive a car that gets about 15mpg because I enjoy driving it. I generate approx 13 gallons of trash per day. This is mostly s…

> There simply has to be a stronger (perhaps economic) incentive that will change the behavior of people like me.

People like you might want economic incentives, but what they actually need is a better education.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#269
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say the planned community has a certain feel, you are swimming in an ocean of zoning.

They got special exceptions from the county to do their own thing and not have obey the existing ones. So it is more like an island.

Sorry, I meant that zoning is very much a form of top down planning. It's just pervasive.

There can be even more structure, but when a town or city simply blocks medium density residential structures, that's pretty top down.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as the energy wasted is clean energy, I guess it should be fine? The sun is shining on Earth at all times and most of the energy is wasted.

It would be fine if all energy used everywhere on the planet was green. Until then, wasting clean energy still creates more demand for that clean energy, which affects its price and thus its competitiveness vs other energy sources. Even in Quebec, for example, energy not used is sold outside the province.

Wasting a resource decreases its supply. With legitimate demand constant, the decrease in supply increases the price of the good. If the price is then in the fossil fuel range, you’ve increased the demand for fossil fuel.
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