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Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

bloomberg.com

91–100 of 342 posts

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#91
post #8

While the reducing pollution piece is captured here, interestingly the reducing oil imports dependency is not captured in the article which I would imagine is equally important here.

> reducing oil imports dependency

I keep harping on this as something important that doesn't get much attentions. Lot of countries are almost wholly dependent on oil imports. Things will change rapidly as the leaders of those countries wake up to the fact that they don't have to be.

Geopolitical implications are huge.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP was talking about China. China is bigger than the continental US. I think the persistent myth about the US's size being some unique problem doesn't explain much. What's more, if you think of the EU as a comparison for the US, with the individual counties as analogues for US states, it seems to explain even less. Belgium and Massachusetts are the same size but over has much better transit options than the other…

In 2015, Belgium had a Population density of 363people/Km^2. Massachusetts in 2015 had 336 people/KM^2. So, pretty close. The difference is that Belgium has a much more uniform population distribution vs Massachusetts. Secondarily, Belgium can define it's own national policy, while MA must compromise with the rest of the country, including CA, WY, MT, and NY, all of which have very different economic and practical co…

Obviously the US has some structural issues, otherwise it wouldn't have these persistent failures. All I'm doing is pushing back against the simplistic "but the US is so big compared to all those tiny countries".

If you want to talk about density or uniform distribution... Why is Australian public transit so much better than American public transit?

America's governmental structure isn't unique either. There are other countries with the same kind of federalism.

And similar rebuttals can be made for virtually all other explanations.

I guess what I'm really getting at is that in the real world there are no easy solutions or explanations to problems despite the penchant in places like HN and Reddit to try to reduce explanations to a single paragraph. America's problems are likely due to a complex interaction between federalism, its geographic size, its traditional wariness of cities, its first mover advantage turning into obsolete infrastructure, and many other factors besides. But it is hard to know that the relative importance of any of those things actually is.

If you say Belgium can make its own policy, you are almost certainly making an off the cuff comment. There are dozens, possibly hundreds, of Europe-wide rules and regulations on transit that limit what Belgium can do. Belgium has to work across borders just like Massachusetts does. From Directive 95/19 on safety certification to Directive 2005/47 on the working conditions of workers on services that happen to cross a border. Since 2007 every European railway undertaking is able to off er rail freight services on every line in every EU country.

It is a mistake to paint a picture where Belgium has unlimited unilateral decision making powers.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#93
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there been an improvement in air quality or have the changes been too small to have an impact as yet?

Haven't been here long enough (~12 months) to anecdata that, but it's generally recognized that government policies are increasing air quality rapidly in many major cities. Example policies: routinely spraying water on the roads in dusty areas and near construction sites, banning motorbikes from city centers, banning the import of second hand vehicles, encouraging electric vehicles, moving polluting industries away f…

> banning motorbikes from city centers

Dirty thing people miss about motorbikes. Better mileage, but not as much as you would think, in return for a lot more emissions. That said I'm lead to understand that electric motorcycles and bicycles have become very common in China.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#94

Please stop linking to Bloomberg. The auto-play video at least is muted, but when you go and press the pause button it... unmutes the video. Then you have to press it again to actually pause. Fuck these guys and their dark patterns.

I use this to stop videos (although some sites have still found ways around it by making a "click to read" that plays the video.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autoplaystopper/ej...

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#95

Please stop linking to Bloomberg. The auto-play video at least is muted, but when you go and press the pause button it... unmutes the video. Then you have to press it again to actually pause. Fuck these guys and their dark patterns.

I’m more likely to click a Bloomberg link than most traditional news sources on HN. I believe the video can be scrolled past without interacting with it.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#96
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP was talking about China. China is bigger than the continental US. I think the persistent myth about the US's size being some unique problem doesn't explain much. What's more, if you think of the EU as a comparison for the US, with the individual counties as analogues for US states, it seems to explain even less. Belgium and Massachusetts are the same size but over has much better transit options than the other…

I think abakker's point is that the US is much less densely populated compared to China and the EU. The US has much of its population distributed far distances from urban areas, which makes electric vehicles a less desirable option.

Sweden's population density is less than the US but they have better transit.

The US's urbanization rate is 82% which is higher than Canada, Norway, Spain, France, Greece, Taiwan, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Portugal, Ireland, and 150 other countries.

The US doesn't have much of its population distributed outside of urban areas compared to most countries. The US actually has few people outside of urban areas compared to most countries.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#97
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So national policy is essentially catering to the minority that live in rural areas? That seems backwards.

So we should just abandon our rural areas? That seems backwards.

It's already happening for loads of other, often good reasons. It's called urbanization. You can try to resist the future but you cannot stop it. You might just as well embrace it. How exactly does that seem backwards?

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#98
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about real rural areas, it's sprawl largely. It's been the dominant and TOP-DOWN planned development pattern for a whole generation, and it's totally tragic. Not only from energy perspective but nearly all other variables. There's almost nothing arguably redeemable about sprawl. https://www.strongtowns.org/ is about the best org discussing these issues and isn't coming from a left- or right-wing perspective…

> and TOP-DOWN planned development pattern for a whole generation, I'd almost think it is bottom-up not top-down. Top down would imply some central planning, allowance for more space, livable communities, more trees, more parks and trails, mixed zoning etc. I grew up in a Soviet Union and towns and cities were designed top-down. Nice wide streets, electric trolley buses in the city that ran regularly. For all the ill…

Not all central planning mean same end result. US gov did embrace suburban sprawl.

Bottom-up planning example would be post-USSR where people converted community gardens into suburbs on their own. Without any central planning or viable infrastructure.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#99
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So national policy is essentially catering to the minority that live in rural areas? That seems backwards.

So we should just abandon our rural areas? That seems backwards.

When China is the dominant economic superpower I doubt they will care much about abandoning the rural United States.

Re: Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry

#100
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2015, Belgium had a Population density of 363people/Km^2. Massachusetts in 2015 had 336 people/KM^2. So, pretty close. The difference is that Belgium has a much more uniform population distribution vs Massachusetts. Secondarily, Belgium can define it's own national policy, while MA must compromise with the rest of the country, including CA, WY, MT, and NY, all of which have very different economic and practical co…

Obviously the US has some structural issues, otherwise it wouldn't have these persistent failures. All I'm doing is pushing back against the simplistic "but the US is so big compared to all those tiny countries". If you want to talk about density or uniform distribution... Why is Australian public transit so much better than American public transit? America's governmental structure isn't unique either. There are othe…

> Why is Australian public transit so much better than American public transit?

I would guess it's because Australia is, like, 99% uninhabited and uninhabitable or borderline uninhabitable[1], which probably means they can focus resources almost exclusively on the few densely populated areas. Additionally Australia's urban population seems to be significantly higher than America's (~89% vs ~80% according to 5 seconds of Googling I just did) so there's probably greater political will for investing in urban areas, and that political will probably also isn't resisted/sabotaged by an electoral system that grants hugely disproportionate representation to non-urban areas that have little to gain from realistic/economically sensible investments in public transportation.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8ehplw/australian_...

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