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Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

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Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#141

Post by mywittyname »

toephu2 wrote: post #117
refurb wrote: post #2

Having been laid off due to downsizing, I think everyone should go through it at least once. Sure, the first time will leave you panic stricken, but you'll come out the other side with a lot more clarity about the employee-employer relationship. You are disposable. Even the CEO is disposable (as I've seen many times). Once you realize that, you'll stop the BS about loyalty to your company. It's a business arrangement…

Even Steve Jobs is disposable. How many here remember where they were and what they were doing when they heard Steve Jobs passed away? Almost like being able to recall where you were when 9/11 happened. When I heard of his death I was shocked, I wondered how Apple would survive, how the world for that matter would move on? But sure enough the next day the sun still rose and and the earth still rotated. Today Apple is…

> Almost like being able to recall where you were when 9/11 happened.

Is this sarcasm that I'm not picking up on? I literally can't remember what year SJ died. I can't even remember what generation iPhone was his last.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#142

Post by ghaff »

davepeck wrote: post #59

I wrote about how my experience with layoffs at Silicon Graphics in 1999 turned out, in retrospect, to be extremely lucky bad luck: https://davepeck.org/2009/02/11/the-luckiest-bad-luck/

Yeah, I've been lucky as well. Got laid off shortly after 9/11 from a company that had been a really bad fit. But got a job with another quickly. Things ended up being a bit rough financially because of industry events but it wasn't terrible and I liked the work. Then when the writing was on the wall for that company I ended up with a new employer. It's been great across all dimensions and probably only happened because of what I was doing previously.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#143

Post by desireco42 »

mancerayder wrote: post #77
desireco42 wrote: post #67

I am one of those weirdos, that change jobs so often, I do contracting often enough, that I get fired quite often, or quit. I remember when one big corp I had long term contract decided to 'trim the fat' and laid us all. My neighbor felt bad and wanted to make lunch for me. I explained her that the same day, I went to another big corp (pretending to be startup) and got much higher rate I always wanted. That lasted a…

I went a similar route (contracting) but you seem to have more resilience. I recently went a couple of months in between contracts after a long-term one ended and started panicking after 2 months, jumping into something that wasn't ideal. It's feast or famine with contracting, which I'm still getting used to (hint: the feasts are easier to adapt to).

I had those. Definitely should count on those. I don't have any good advice. In the past I had recruiters and contacts that I could get work within days. It gets harder.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#144

Post by FlyingSideKick »

After having worked at large companies and startups including founding a few of my own it is clear that job and financial security is about equal between the two. The last Fortune 100 company I worked for would cull thier workforce including whole teams often regardless of individual performance every March. If you had just happened to work on the wrong team for the wrong director too bad for you. All to often I saw dedicated people who had sacrificed years and long hours just get laid off seemingly out of nowhere. Directors seemed to have the worst longevity as when a VP was let go they often got rid of his or her management team as well.

The days of company loyalty are long gone. If you work at a large company and have been there over a year keep actively looking for the an even better position. You are expendable and therefore owe your employer nothing more than what you are paid to do today. I hate being so negative but sadly this seems to be the state of affairs these days

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#145

Post by guntars »

jcadam wrote: post #84
justherefortart wrote: post #50

Work for yourself. That's the answer. One job means you get fired and you're looking for a new boss. 10 clients means if one fires you, you still have 9 you're hopefully keeping happy. I try to follow what I read about Gates starting Microsoft in some Biography. He tried to keep 2x the salary of all the employees as cash on hand, so if something went bad, they could try to weather the storm as long as possible. So be…

If I knew how to find consulting/contract clients for non-third-world-peasantry rates, I would quit my FT job today. My employer bills me out at ~$150-200/hr, so I know it's possible, I just have no idea how to get started.

The reason your employer can bill you for ~$150-200/hr is that they're also selling a peace of mind that the project is going to be on track, even if you get hit by a bus one morning. Getting that rate individually is certainly possible, but you'll have to justify it harder.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#146

Post by curun1r »

replicatorblog wrote: post #30

I'd be curious to ask the author, + Have many of your laid off peers had trouble finding work, post-layoff? + Do you think you'd have a difficult time finding another job if you were laid off? Most people in tech, who are willing to live in one of a half dozen specific cities, have job security prior generations could only have dreamed of. Tech skills are far more portable than a skilled line worker at Ford's River R…

This is an important perspective to take. Getting laid off, for someone unfamiliar or unprepared, can be very scary. But I can honestly say that every time I've been laid off (4 times thus far...mostly back in the .com days when smaller companies either imploded or started trending that direction) has been beneficial to my career. The first few layoffs I was young and needed experience. Getting to experience as many different work environments and perspectives of senior engineers was hugely valuable. I saw both how to do things right and wrong and it helped me get to a senior level, both in ability and through getting pay bumps after each move.

My most recent layoff was hard personally, because I was leaving an amazing group of coworkers that I still consider friends. But it took me about a month to find another job, which ended up being a company that almost immediately got acquired. Beyond being pretty lucrative for me, the relationship with the CEO of that company has led to him now investing/advising my new startup.

It's natural that we panic a bit when circumstance takes the reins and starts to direct our lives. Being in control is just so much more comfortable. But when we learn to take a step back and see the full situation, layoffs can be a really good thing for a lot of people. Ideally, we'd all like to work at hugely successful companies. Having to look for a new job may not be ideal, but the worse situation is continuing to work at a company with limited prospects for success. Being in the group that's laid off first stings a bit, but it's usually better than being one of the the ones that's retained.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#147

Post by fallingfrog »

pascalxus wrote: post #28
redundo_twa wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway account because I'm currently in the middle of being laid off ("redundancy" in UK). I thought I always had that somewhat-cynical outlook by default, coming from a leftist family; but still, the unfairness of this process (first time for me in 20 years of work) boils my blood. Metrics massaged to target this and that, backstabbing, disrespecting people who built the company... all that will forever scar the…

if this only happens once in 20 years to you, then you've been quite lucky or have done quite well. In the tech industry, companies have lay offs on average about once per year: every year your there, you roll the dice. It's not just troubled books. Many have lay off quotas they need to fill: jack walsh style of management. It's just how modern day capitalism works. There is however, one upside. All that laying off m…

I think it's also a union-busting tactic- if you keep the turnover high enough then people don't get to know each other well enough to form unions.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#148

Post by varjag »

dv_dt wrote: post #90
Spooky23 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech is not a meritocracy. Many of us like to think of it that way, but the reality is that most of the jobs associated with tech are bullshit, and much of tech headcount is IT. The last big place that I worked could easily cut tech headcount in half and hardly notice. A decade from now they can probably reduce headcount 80% in IT and 75% in the business. The impact of global growth won’t impact jobs directly for awh…

> The last big place that I worked could easily cut tech headcount in half and hardly notice. This is sometimes true, but you have to be careful about myths about occupied capacity (of people and machines). If 100% of the people are occupied, it's very likely that the company is very understaffed and can easily get into trouble too. When xx% of the people are idle, you might look next week, or the next phase of a pro…

Not sure it works like that. If there's a surge of work, slackers go on slacking and you have to hire/rent people.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#149

Post by fallingfrog »

I can tell you exactly why they kept you and not someone else: you're the most junior developer. The senior ones are more expensive. I've seen it before- to make the profit margins look better in preparation for a sale they axe all their most experienced people. It's possible that snap is about to get purchased.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#150

Post by mywittyname »

jcadam wrote: post #84
justherefortart wrote: post #50

Work for yourself. That's the answer. One job means you get fired and you're looking for a new boss. 10 clients means if one fires you, you still have 9 you're hopefully keeping happy. I try to follow what I read about Gates starting Microsoft in some Biography. He tried to keep 2x the salary of all the employees as cash on hand, so if something went bad, they could try to weather the storm as long as possible. So be…

If I knew how to find consulting/contract clients for non-third-world-peasantry rates, I would quit my FT job today. My employer bills me out at ~$150-200/hr, so I know it's possible, I just have no idea how to get started.

> I just have no idea how to get started.

Have a whole team of eager engineers ready to go for the next big project. That's 90% of the reason your company gets the contracts they do; they (claim they) can get 5-10 qualified engineers in the building by next Thursday. Which is something you obviously can't do.

It's hard to find good work as an indie dev unless you have a skill-set that works well in that setting. Either you're an industry specialist in a field, or you're awesome at stuff that small companies need. And the market for the latter is getting tighter every day.

Everyone I know that makes a good living as a indie contractor has themselves as an employee, working on apps or niche websites to pay the bills during the lean months. The outstanding ones I know can learn a new technology by creating a marketable product from it. As in, their very first iPhone app / website made them money.

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