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Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

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Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#101

Post by gamblor956 »

phil248 wrote: post #34
minikites wrote: post #20

>Because you do not have power. Remember that, always. When you get promoted, when you enter management, when you get a stellar performance review, you are simply fulfilling the whims of someone else. I hope the author learns about labor unions some day, hopefully soon.

If you look at the advancements in worker protections in recent years, they do not come from unions. Paid maternity/paternity leave, higher wage floors, pay equality, paid sick leave... these are all being mandated by governments and they apply to all workers, not by unions that represent one industry.

Those advancements that you speak of were all pioneered by labor unions. And in most states they were also negotiated by labor unions, who negotiated directly with legislators.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#102

Post by bb88 »

gojomo wrote: post #52

Author is 22 years old, and was not laid off. But, because some peers were – from Snap, a boom-times high-flyer – he's now facing a crisis-of-confidence, first in himself, and then in what feelings of security might be available from reaching "[t]he upper middle-class, the professional class, that venerable example of American wealth and mobility". Well, of course working for a single hot company at 22 doesn't mean y…

> Well, of course working for a single hot company at 22 doesn't mean your career is set for life. What, did he think he was going to retire at Snap?

Isn't that the promise of silicon valley? That there's so much money to be made that it turns engineers into entrepreneurs in their 20's?

Or has silicon valley now gone the way the rest of society has where huge corporate profits no longer get passed to the people who make it happen on a day to day basis?

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#103

Post by throwaway82729 »

refurb wrote: post #2

Having been laid off due to downsizing, I think everyone should go through it at least once. Sure, the first time will leave you panic stricken, but you'll come out the other side with a lot more clarity about the employee-employer relationship. You are disposable. Even the CEO is disposable (as I've seen many times). Once you realize that, you'll stop the BS about loyalty to your company. It's a business arrangement…

I was laid off once. Got a call from my VP when I was on my vacation. It was an extremely painful experience since I had been repeatedly told that I was a good performer and was critical to the team. I used that as an opportunity to reevaluate how I was operating and swore to make myself as valuable as possible. Also, I started keenly observing how the business was doing and jumped before layoffs happened. Today, I'm in a senior middle management role but still operating very cautiously and taking nothing for granted.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#104

Post by redundo_twa »

21 wrote: post #32
ForHackernews wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of people on this rock. Even if only a "small portion of the population" can do the work, that means there are tens of millions (literally) around the world who could do your job as well or better than you. You are the lucky beneficiary of restrictive immigration and employment policies.

There are places with less restrictive immigration (Europe) and salaries are still very high. The supply of decent programmers is just not enough to cover demand.

> salaries are still very high

Much less so than in the US, though. To be honest I think that's more an effect of different cultural values ("novelty" and "bootstrapping" here are not as celebrated as in the US), but there is definitely a difference.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#105

Post by eeZah7Ux »

zeveb wrote: post #3

I'm not certain what he expects: lifetime risk-free employment? Yeah, there's stress involved with risk. But the risk one has as an upper-middle-class American is tech is nothing compared to the risks that others alive today face, and less than nothing compared to the risks that others in the past have faced. Nothing last forever. Not a job — not even one's life. Make the most of it while you can.

> nothing compared to the risks that others in the past have faced

citation needed!

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#106

Post by throwme_1980 »

i don't see why this is any different than other layoffs, the company's perceived value in the would be ex-employees is not the same as the employees themselves. they let people go for various reasons, most of those reasons make sense to the business.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#107

Post by asmosoinio »

redundo_twa wrote: post #86
kemiller wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how that would work. I completely agree that layoffs suck, but when a company is at that point, it's usually because other options have been exhausted. But turning a bunch of people out who have never run a company (presumably) as a spinoff seems pretty cruel in most cases. Edit: most of my experience being laid off has been at startups, where I guess it's a bit different from big companies.

>when a company is at that point, it's usually because other options have been exhausted. Definitely not the case for me at the moment, but I won't bore you with the details. I don't think it would be cruel at all. If a company cuts entire chunks of the business (products, departments, what have you), it's because someone made a management call that they don't want to bear the risk and/or losses associated to that pa…

I've been through something like this.

I did see it and a win-win, but it takes a lot of resources from the company. I don't see a say 1000 employee company in the middle of some crisis (hence the layoffs) having the capacity to execute such things. Or at least it's easy to see why this would not be a priority.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#108

Post by pnw_hazor »

urda wrote: post #42

Why is this on the front page? A recent grad, at a startup that grew too fast taking on too many employees, and didn't even get laid off, is writing about getting laid off? This is a medium.com fluff piece if I have ever seen one. Come back and talk to me when you have actually been laid off.

...only when the author is 40+

I was laid off once, I made it through the first round, the day they cut me in the second round I accepted another job offer.

Any time a company started cutting, I started looking. It was always a good signal to leave.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#109

Post by Rafuino »

sizzzzlerz wrote: post #40

I just passed my 40th anniversary since college working in the valley. I've worked for 3 companies, the current one I'm in my 26th year. Although all 3 companies had one or more periods of downsizing, I was never a part of any of them but I did have to suffer colleagues and friends leaving because of them. It's no more fun for those who are left than for those who are shown the door. The lesson learned from that is y…

Congrats! What do you think about the seemingly more common approach for newer grads to work 2-4 years per job and then move on? I hear MBA grads on average stay in their first job ~18 months. It's around the same length for software engineer jobs: https://deeptalent.com/blog/tenure-length-tech-titans-compar....

Where I work now longevity is highly valued, and I think leadership is disconnected with the reality of today's job market.

Re: Getting Laid Off in Tech: The Myth of Upper Middle Class Security

#110

Post by 21 »

ElysianEagle wrote: post #99
21 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are places with less restrictive immigration (Europe) and salaries are still very high. The supply of decent programmers is just not enough to cover demand.

It's my understanding that all the countries in Europe where salaries for software engineers are high, have rather strict immigration policies.

1. Other EU citizens can basically move around freely, from poor paying countries (Eastern Europe) to good paying ones.

2. Even for non-EU citizens, it's way way easier to get a software job (the company can get a visa for you). There is no H1B style cap. If you get an offer, you get the visa & job. True, for the first few years the visa might be tied to the job, but this just means that you need to have a new offer before leaving the previous job.

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