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Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

inthemesh.com

331–340 of 356 posts

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was just an example for how your data could be transferable for fully offline/airgap type uses. Its not the ordinary use case. The ordinary case is simply that your data resides on your device's storage. https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/getting-started.html has links to more information on how it all works. So far, I like the implementation (I've checked out the patchwork client). The issue for me is the ease of getti…

> I'm a facebook kind of guy and I'm not sure what the solution is when everyone else is on facebook. Somebody was the first person you knew who was on FarceBook, otherwise, from what you're saying, you wouldn't be on there. Be that someone for your network of family and friends, on a user-respecting platform. May the source be with you ;)

the effort to get started and the social graph issue are related. If it were easy to install and get my friends connected to the same networks I'm connected to, then I'd be way more inclined to be the first person in my network to recommend it to friends.

Today the bar is really low for 'easy' - clicking on a web link and providing some credentials. I think having a really nice introductory web experience and the ability to have the same experience on multiple devices for the same user is a must-have for this. I understand they're working on it, but in my mind it's the #1 barrier to adoption.

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think decentralisation is the wrong way to look at it. The protocol itself becomes the point of centralisation with many providers implementing in federation. Nothing to stop any of them being commercial (they may have all kinds of ease of use and features on top) or not. Since you lose the network effect of bigger player owning 'footfall' (e.g. ebay), there should be less natural tendency for monopoly and greater…

If the protocol is what makes it work, then it's definitely not centralized. Look at email, for example. I love it, but it's past its prime, because it just doesn't evolve to meet new needs and new mental models. Contrast this with how well proprietary messaging platforms have been taken up and improved iteratively. Or even look at how Google is advancing GMail. Email is nominally federated, but they have circa a bil…

Standardisation would have been a better choice of words.

But this sounds like the old proprietary vs open source arguments. 1. The biggest tech companies in the world have struggled to keep up with the pace of innovation in open source. 2. Scale of userbase counts but standards facilitate this by creating a network and market. 3. There is a compelling business case for having an ownership stake in your tech platform which revolves around roadmap, security, and longevity. Longevity is counterintuitive but FB can bite the dust like Myspace, and Google can go the way of Woolworths. Huge institutional brands can evaporate fast and barely leave a trace; many young people today have never heard of Madonna, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin, unthinkable to older generations.

The way to differentiate on standards is via features and service, which gmail does well (spam was the killer feature which got most using it). But just lately Google has started looking at proprietary extensions to web and mail, and it's like Microsoft in the early web all over again. We saw how that turned out, even though it was unthinkable that MS wouldn't "win the web" at the time by their sheer scale, brand recognition, and a market share which amounted to a de facto monopoly.

(And funnily enough, Google seems to make the same product mistakes as MS, where it tries to boil the ocean in an orgy of featuritis. With a subset of the tech behind Wave they could have made a great competitor to Wechat/Line etc. Look at Slack - it costs around the same, possibly more than, Office 365 or Google Apps for Business, yet does a tiny fraction. Everybody knows Slack's only real differentiator is UX and service e.g. not having to run chat servers, bouncers, search etc. Again Google could have pieced a lot of Slack together from existing components in Wave. Feels like they are very shaky when it comes to executing product and it could be their undoing.)

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#333
post #131

Why are we finding alternatives to Facebook, when in fact we should really be educating ourselves and people to stop sharing every single bit of personal information about themselves online, be it on Facebook or a decentralized application. The problem with Facebook is that it holds way too much personal information about a person - phone numbers, emails, a person's likes/dislikes, hometown, current location, etc, an…

A large point of concern I do not see discussed with centralized currator like FB is the ability of massive cesnsorship

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#335

Only tech heads will understand the importance of a decentralized social network. Casual people who make up the bulk of social media won't .

Yeah, only tech heads will understand the importance of decentralized media like the internet and the web. Casual people who make up the bulk of media consumers won't, they'll stick to centralized media like TV, radio, and newspapers. Wait ... what happened ... I couldn't sworn that 20 seconds ago it was 1987 and I was watching MTV ...

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#336
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...Until the voat/the_donald/conspiracy/incels crowd ruins it within a few weeks of it gaining any momentum.

That is just a problem of offering good filters. Every bubble other than the own is unpleasant. Social networks need to reproduce the filters we create in real life (social, territorial, etc.) to represent human interaction. Facebook is sometimes famously called out for creating those filters. ... although I often struggle to unfollow unpleasant (stupid/hateful/hivemind/low effort) content fast enough.

> That is just a problem of offering good filters.

True, and this is a solved problem in the fediverse. Mastodon dev team have been particularly good at implementing filtering tools at both the user and instance level (like the email filters that block whole domains used only for spam or other abuse).

We've had a couple of waves of folks banned from the birdsite turn up, get asked to set up their own instances, and after a while, you just stop noticing they're there. It's like a normal after-work drinks pub and a skinhead bar being in the same street. You occasionally walk past some unsavoury characters, but you don't have to interact with them.

> Facebook is sometimes famously called out for creating those filters.

No, what FarceBook and goOgle (among others) are called out for is creating echo chambers, not filters. The difference is subtle but crucial. In a nutshell, filters allow you to mute people who abuse you; spamming, flooding, flaming, dogpiling, sea-lioning, all the old favourites from UseNet/ mailing lists and a few new ones. Echo chambers quietly disappear the opinions of people who may disagree with you, however politely, and regardless of how many peer-reviewed citations they offer. You don't even know its happening, leading to dangerous levels of false consciousness, and uncritical partisanship.

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#338
post #116

Looks interesting but I think that something like Mastodon is more approachable for a general audience.

I prefer Scuttlebutt because of the P2P architecture which allows offline-first and no-backend. With Mastodon I still have to have an internet connection, and create an account on a server.

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#339
post #137

Does anyone know how this compares to ActivityPub?

Very roughly:

* AP is a decentralized protocol, like email or XMPP, that standardizes federated interactions from server-to-server, and interactions from server-to-client. Sharing data between end users depends on one or more servers.

* SSB is distributed protocol, more like Git or BitTorrent. It has a concept of "pubs" which play a supernode role vaguely similar to that of BitTorrent trackers, or maybe a WebRTC server. Sharing data between users is P2P, not mediated by a server, although the pubs help user locate each other.

EDIT: formatting

Re: Scuttlebutt, a Decentralized Alternative to Facebook

#340
post #301
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diaspora is federated, which for non-technical users is worse than FaceBook itself. The individual nodes (to which thousands of users are connected) will have far fewer resources to secure themselves than a behemoth like FaceBook. Also, uptime, badwidth etc. ScuttleButt is peer to peer, somewhat like torrents but for data feeds.

a nice thing you have with Diaspora is it is adopting ActivityPub, an open standard by W3C, and thus being able to interconnect with e.g. PeerWeb and friendi.ca and other future impls. curious what thoughts on this are.. could it be incorporated wit SSB (or Dat Project for that matter), or fundamentally different (ActivityPub is also federated, but doesn't have to be.. though i'm no expert on this).

Doesn't sounds like the Diaspora team have any plans to implement AP, which is a shame. Here's a fairly scathing write-up on ActivityPub from a prominent Diaspora dev: https://schub.io/blog/2018/02/01/activitypub-one-protocol-to...

Friendi.ca and Hubzilla can already interoperate with Diaspora using the Diaspora protocol. Here's a good guide to the current landscape of free code, federated social networks here, and which protocols each app supports: https://medium.com/we-distribute/a-quick-guide-to-the-free-n...

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