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Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

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Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#51

Post by chrisseaton »

rbanffy wrote: post #48
chrisseaton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Ireland already had a huge glut of housing that nobody wanted?

Quite the contrary. There is a monumental housing shortage. But this is not where this money will go. When all is said and done, if Apple still owes that much, it'll be divided with the rest of the EU according to Apple's sales. Thanks to its tech hubs (it seems every other person on the train is a software engineer), Ireland may end up with some part of it, but most certainly not all.

What happened to that huge number of empty estates built during the boom? Are they in the wrong place? Can people live there but work from home?

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#53

Post by throwaway2048 »

eitally wrote: post #37
avar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like some EU taxation rules, e.g. the minimum 15% VAT, which effectively sets an upper bound on government efficiency, but this has nothing to do with that. Ireland is not being penalized for having taxes that are too low, but, in the words of the EC[1]: > Ireland granted undue tax benefits of up to > €13 billion to Apple. This is illegal under > EU state aid rules, because it allowed Apple > to pay substanti…

It's interesting that this is true, because (at the state level, not federal) this is table stakes to lure large corporations to locate in one state over another. Just look at some of the pitches cities/states have been making to Amazon for their HQ2, or the Foxconn deal in Wisconsin. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/05/foxc...

This is very negative behaviour in sum, because it becomes a race to the bottom where you either forgo all tax revenue, or you dont attract large companies.

Its good the EU has rules in place to prevent this destructive behaviour.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#54

Post by pjc50 »

jamesblonde wrote: post #43
dosycorp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. IE is not double dealing to the EU for a bit of kick back somehow? Of course they are. That EU is "forcing" them is hilarious. IE loves to play a fake victim if they can, and in this case, all the better to be open for business. "Oh, EU, please stop getting me to get Apple to pay me taxes. Please stop making me collect revenue." Said no state ever. But believe their fake victim tale if you want. The Irish ar…

Actually, the revenue won't end up in ireland. All member states will send a bill to ireland, and ireland will split up the money to them (based on Apple's relative sales around Europe).

Where's that in the ruling?

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#55

Post by jamesblonde »

dosycorp wrote: post #45
jamesblonde wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the revenue won't end up in ireland. All member states will send a bill to ireland, and ireland will split up the money to them (based on Apple's relative sales around Europe).

That is interesting. There has to be a way that IE gets a significant cut from the Apple money tho. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't. That or in future the recompensated EU members agree to invest more in IE.

The EU has rules. What govt would invest in ireland? How - what instrument of govt? That's not going to happen. The commission will issue a ruling on the destination of the revenue and that will be that.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#56

Post by hhw »

dilap wrote: post #3

When the people complain about the European union taking too much autonomy, this seems like a pretty good example. It seems crazy to me that Ireland is "not allowed" to set taxes as low as it would like to attract foreign investment. Even states in the US can freely do that!

In a world where more and more power is concentrated into fewer and fewer large corporations, I'm not so sure this is crazy that they're not allowed to do this, nor that it would be a good thing if they were. The natural result would be that different states or nations race to the bottom chasing the corporations to locate there, depriving their citizens of substantial tax revenues that could have been used for the public good. Even if you're against social programs, there is still common infrastructure that everyone benefits from such as roads that need to be paid for.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#57

Post by scoggs »

Ftuuky wrote: post #21
noddy1 wrote: post #14

"Apple CEO Tim Cook previously called the decision "total political crap" " Fuck off asshole. Playing to the limits of tax law is fine, but acting outraged when it backfires on you is lame. You played, you lost, suck it up.

Exactly. Nothing against firms trying to optimize their fiscal plan but if you have to pay then shut up and pay it up.

I know it's unreasonable but I'd really love to be a fly on the wall and somehow be able to see, in an alternate reality, how / where / when / why that money they'd be paying would be spent. I'm just purely curious.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#58

Post by dragonwriter »

heartbreak wrote: post #52

The Irish Supreme Court has previously held that ex post facto civil laws are illegal in the Republic of Ireland. Is this not ex post facto taxation?

I'm pretty sure the EU law underlying this was in force in Ireland before the taxable events, so no, it's just a retrospective determination of tax owed under law in force at the time of the act.

Re: Apple Will Start Paying Back Taxes to Irish Government Next Month

#59

Post by dosycorp »

jamesblonde wrote: post #55
dosycorp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting. There has to be a way that IE gets a significant cut from the Apple money tho. I'd be very surprised if there wasn't. That or in future the recompensated EU members agree to invest more in IE.

The EU has rules. What govt would invest in ireland? How - what instrument of govt? That's not going to happen. The commission will issue a ruling on the destination of the revenue and that will be that.

EU members companies.

Come on about rules tho, man. History is messy. People are stupid and evil ( as well as good, obviously ). We live in an age where we have a great pretence of goodness, but really our nature is the same. I'm sure there a lot of double dealing happening behind the veneer of rules. And I think you're naive/uneducated in history if you think not.

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