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In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

theguardian.com

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Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#121

Post by candiodari »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #115
ben_w wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curricula don't have to be easier if you have a large student body, and graduation requirements don't have to be lower. Only if everyone became a lot more skilled than their grades imply. Academic achievement is not be a perfect measure, but if you go from the top 3.4% of the population to the top 50%, the only possible situations are: 1) everyone is doing a lot better at school now 2) graduation rate goes down 3)…

That presumes That the top 3.4% really were just the smartest - not the also the wealthiest and best connected. There is probably both some dilution of talent and also more competition from all levels of society. And as to point 1. In the UK at least there is no doubt many many more are doing a lot better at school nowadays. Schools have evened up and pupils work far harder as most jobs require qualifications.

Yes we must have social justice above all ! At the very least above average performance for all !

Are you really willing to believe that ability is randomly distributed among the population ? Because, frankly, that disagrees with a great many studies on the subject.

But of course, what you can do, is lower the level of pupils until the difference between them disappears. You cannot lift everyone's level, that just doesn't work.

Which do you think the government did ? Did it make everyone smarter ? Or did it lower the level until everyone performed ? What do you really think happened ?

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#122

Post by [deleted] »

remedan wrote: post #15
joshsyn wrote: post #11

I have lost confidence in the western university system. Too much high exorbitant fees, with no future prospects but debt, so I have taken it myself to learn online via open courses.

Why? I live in the west (continental Europe) and you can attend a good university for free here. The state pays your tuition.

[deleted]

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#123

Post by sykh »

patricius wrote: post #45
remedan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I live in the west (continental Europe) and you can attend a good university for free here. The state pays your tuition.

I know this is a trite comment, but no, you still pay through taxes. The state has no money. I too live in a country with tax-financed universities.

When someone says tuition is free or that healthcare is free what they mean is that using these services doesn’t cost out of pocket expenses and doesn’t lead to debt. In this sense those services are free.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#124

Post by wastedhours »

Xuper wrote: post #5

It would be nice to see some STEM-affirmative universities without any x-studies leaching. Professional complainer is a viable career path these days and it starts at uni.

Huh? I might have misinterpreted your point, but you might have it backward. Most STEM courses are subsidised by "studies" and humanities. It can cost multiples more to teach a biology student than an English one, and that cost is offset by it being less than fees to teach the latter and more than fees to teach the former.

A university would have a hard time having a competitive science department without leaching cash from the business studies faculty.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#126

Post by terriblechat90 »

funkythings wrote: post #18

It's very disingenuous of the author not to mention free speech issues, the massive administrations that are run by radical left-leaning activists essentially, and pseudoscience like gender studies or gender studies. I agree otherwise

My thoughts exactly.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#127

Post by nisa »

glogla wrote: post #13
joshsyn wrote: post #11

I have lost confidence in the western university system. Too much high exorbitant fees, with no future prospects but debt, so I have taken it myself to learn online via open courses.

Not all of West has it this way. US and UK yes, but rest of EU mostly has free college in same or higher quality.

In Germany quality of education is going downhill fast - that is not only my personal impression but also what friends in other Unis tell me.

The universities grow huge marketing and managing administrations while teaching is lacking even often money to pay some student to check the sheets and research is solely dependend on 3rd party funding.

Even if you have access and funding for equipment there are no funds to pay someone for maintenance or making good use of the equipment.

Some PhD that were not quick enough to deny any involvement are doing the job or clueless student assistants that are left alone.

Plagiarism is also rampant and most students avoid any extra work/activities at all costs. Suing for better grades is also not uncommon.

Research often turns into pushing out publications and papers at all costs and is more like an art to defend your own existence than acknowledging or understanding the problem domain.

Luckily not everywhere but I've heard that more than once and confirm it for my uni.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#128

Post by terriblechat90 »

pjc50 wrote: post #20
funkythings wrote: post #18

It's very disingenuous of the author not to mention free speech issues, the massive administrations that are run by radical left-leaning activists essentially, and pseudoscience like gender studies or gender studies. I agree otherwise

> the massive administrations that are run by radical left-leaning activists essentially Name one of these people and provide an example [2 marks]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/02/eight-ten-b...

Yes I know it's just the story not the report. A quick search shows plenty of examples. I'll have a link in a minute.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#129

Post by kingkongjaffa »

gaius wrote: post #92
sergiosgc wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. It seems to me it is an elitist view that when you provide a service to the unwashed masses, it must be of lower quality. I believe it is false. Curricula don't have to be easier if you have a large student body, and graduation requirements don't have to be lower. Taking in more students does not inhibit service quality, up to the capacity of the school, which can be easily scaled by hiring more…

It seems to me it is an elitist view that when you provide a service to the unwashed masses, it must be of lower quality But it must be. An institution with AAA A-level students can teach more advanced material at a faster pace than one that admits EEEs. This is surely obvious, no? It doesn’t mean anyone is better or worse in a moral sense, it just means more or less academically able.

Not at all.

The ability to learn at university is not correlated with A-level results.

Mastery of the material can help give a good starting point, but I've worked with fantastic E/D/C students and terrible AAA students.

Re: In UK universities there is a daily erosion of integrity

#130

Post by terriblechat90 »

terriblechat90 wrote: post #128
pjc50 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the massive administrations that are run by radical left-leaning activists essentially Name one of these people and provide an example [2 marks]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/02/eight-ten-b... Yes I know it's just the story not the report. A quick search shows plenty of examples. I'll have a link in a minute.

There you go:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56eddde762cd9413e151a...

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