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Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

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Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#171
I developed an automated actor replacement VFX pipeline back in 2008, and patented the idea of automated actor replacements. My desire was to create a Personalized Advertising service where you and your family/friends appear in the ads on streaming video services. The system worked, I acquired the patents, globally, but needed VC or other financing to create the advertising service and agency. I got financing nearly closed with a number of investors, but every time a clause that the technology could not be used for porn was cited as their reason for pulling out. That issue was debated and I did not cave, as I knew an automated "insert anyone into porn" service was nothing I wanted to be associated. I pointed out the endless other possible applications, all high revenue, but simply having any limitations placed on the investors soured their ambition on the idea. Simply getting investors to understand it was difficult, even after demonstrating live actor replacements to them, and even then they were skeptical. I ended up pivoting to a game avatar service, and am now using the technology for facial recognition.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're saying, do you mean there are people who deny the problem yet still take steps to fix it?

No, I am just commenting that it only makes rational sense to ignore a doomsday-type problem if there is no way to avoid it. For example, we all know we are going to die at some point. It is inevitable, and nothing we do is going to prevent us from eventually dying. Because there is nothing we can do, it makes sense for us to ignore the problem, and possibly even to delude ourselves that we will live forever. There i…

Ah, well, when I say "climate denialism is an obvious coping mechanism" I don't mean that people are rationally thinking about the situation and deciding to put their heads in the sand. I think it is "Denial" in the Freudian sense:

> The same word, and also abnegation (German: Verneinung), is used for a psychological defense mechanism postulated by psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

BTW, I think human brains do work rationally to the extent that the world is rational, because they are evolved organs. But human personalities or minds are not necessarily consciously deliberately rational. Like how computers must use physics on the hardware level but can be programmed to model impossible physics in a simulated virtual world.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#173
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was trying to communicate is that Science makes mistakes. Such is life. However, Science makes no effort to own those mistakes. If your sig other __from your pov__ constantly "deceives" you, what happens? Science is oblivious to the __cumulative__ effect its process has on belief, trust, etc. The irony of this truth baffles me.

> However, Science makes no effort to own those mistakes. That sounds ludicrous to me. The entirely of the scientific method is about generating hypotheses, testing them out, finding out you're wrong , and then refining/rewriting those hypotheses and trying again, ad infinitum. Plenty of scientists have been 'wrong' for years. I'd argue the problem you're trying to highlight isn't about 'Science' per se, but the fact…

Exactly!!!

The scientific method is such that Science is never wrong. It's god-esque.

There's no step in the process - a la 12 Step Process for example - that acknowledges past transgressions. It just hypes up the glory and ignores the mistakes.

That's. Not. Working.

That's. Not. Good. Enough.

That's. Bullshit.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#174
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "His thread references the "debate" over climate change, and his point is that the debate most people participate in isn't truly a debate over facts, but rather a debate over trust..." Spot on. What the more purely science-mind can't seem to grasp is facts are only as good as the receivers' trust of the source. The irony is, there's plenty of science to support this. Yet, ironically, science too ignores itself. If…

But instead of owning it's many shortcomings and past transgressions (e.g., consuming Y is safe only to find out it causes birth defects, cancer,etc. Science gave us CFCs then berated us for the hole in the ozone layer...

Yes! And the list goes on and on.

Science can't seem to tie its mistakes to lack of credibility.

Imagine that. Even Science, like CNN, doesn't know correlation from cause.

That's. Just. Sad.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#176
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone can write an article and sign it "Barack Obama," and post it online somewhere. Not many folks will fall for it. That's just stunningly naive. Imagine if Pizzagate or some other such nonsense was accompanied by a video of Podesta mumbling something about sex slaves. Fake News is a a real thing even without video corroboration. > Naked video files, found at random places on the Internet, You honestly think Bre…

snowwrestler is right though, the real power of the fake videos stems from the immense trust we have that a digital video (or photo) portrays the truth - I believe they can usually be used as evidence in court? Perhaps it's a time for a renaissance of film? Or a service that detects doctoring, like Snopes for video (I imagine these AI video doctors probably leave some detectable characteristics in their pixel manipul…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MQrzcwsGYy8 captain disalusion is a YouTube person laity who debunks viral videos, not the kind of bulk or subject matter you're looking for.he breaks down what to look for in fake videos, though.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#177
post #92

Reminds me of an old science-fiction where all events on the media were computer-generated fakes. There has been no "underestimating" of that potential. "Mind-warping" has been researched and is being research extensively by the CIA for some time. Most of that research is still top-secret, but well known are the extreme psychological manipulations of subjects during the MK-Ultra experiments. I will focus on the CIA a…

Interesting on this same topic is the "fabrication of consent" https://www.bitchute.com/video/X4Foosop2wo/

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#178
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But instead of owning it's many shortcomings and past transgressions (e.g., consuming Y is safe only to find out it causes birth defects, cancer,etc. Science gave us CFCs then berated us for the hole in the ozone layer...

Do know what CFC's replaced - ammonia? Ammonia was used in refrigeration before CFC's were invented and when your fridge developed a leak you were gassed to death. Nobody foresaw what CFC's would do to the ozone layer. It took science to find this. I have never seen a claim from science that something is safe. At best you get a claim that something appears to have minimal risks. Minimal != Zero

> I have never seen a claim from science that something is safe.

Yet I regrettably see people, even here on HN, claiming otherwise. We're not helping.

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Y'en a pas un sur cent et pourtant ils existent.

Sure, but we vote with majority of uninformed voters. So democracy has to relegate information to second place, and rely on emotion and narrative to motivate voters. This doesn't mean democratic leaders can't separate campaign from implementation ( campaign on emotive issues, deliver substantive ones ), but it does make the whole trajectory subject to the gravitational downward pull of fickle/merit-less but emotional…

Okay, I confess. I have spoken against the true way of HN and am guilty of advancing ideas counter to the good of the glorious community. I am deeply sorry for how my ideas have damaged the eternal forum. All I can do is submit my useless self to beg for your mercy and surrender to reeducation!!!

Re: Underestimating the mind-warping potential of fake video

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, but what are we verifying, the pre-adjusted numbers, or the post-adjusted numbers? You would compare the raw data (pre). You should also look at the models people use to adjust and ask yourself "does this make sense?" I should mention that the raw data suggests significantly more warming than is actually happening (which is why I've never understood the raw data argumet). This is because most ways we measure ar…

> You should also look at the models people use to adjust and ask yourself "does this make sense?" I don't remember specific details anymore, but any time I've tried to wade into details I'm not able to make much sense of anything. Now, if the science is unavoidably complicated, so be it, but often times it is most definitely not, and correct or not, I am left with the impression that clarity is deliberately not the…

For me it tends to be easier to take a historical view of a scientific topic, exploring what was known at a given time, and particularly focusing on controversies. AGW is widely accepted now, but has been extremely controversial, and was actually entirely discredited for some fifty years after the first published paper on the topic. The reasons for this should probably be extremely popular among skeptics. The Discovery of Global Warming [0] is a hyperlinked and well-cited ebook which describes the climate research of the last century or so.

[0] https://history.aip.org/climate/index.htm

In the 19th Century the prevailing view of climate was that it was static or cyclical, with cold years balancing out warm ones. This began to be challenged by growing evidence for past ice ages, and various theories of climate change proposed mechanisms by which these might occur. At around the same time, people began playing around with carbon dioxide, carbonated water, and carbonic acid, and noticed that many human activities produced large amounts of CO2. In the mid-1860s Tyndall measured the heat characteristics of various atmospheric gases (you can probably reproduce his experiments relatively easily, if you like). A few decades later in 1896 Arrhenius suggested that halving the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere could produce temperatures cold enough for an Ice Age, but he also provided figures for a doubling of atmospheric carbon. His value for climate sensitivity is a bit on the high side of today's range, but still agrees pretty well despite his unsophisticated climate model.

However, Arrhenius was refuted in 1901 by Knut Ångström, who pointed out that 1) the absorption spectrum of water and CO2 overlap, and the atmosphere is essentially completely saturated with H2O, so carbon dioxide probably isn't having any additional effect, 2) the atmosphere is completely opaque to CO2 at lower concentrations than currently exist, so additional CO2 should have no effect, and 3) that the oceans are an unimaginably capacious carbon sink, and can absorb all the carbon that humans could even think about liberating, and then some. The CO2 theory of climate change was mostly forgotten for about half a century.

In that time, we began to explore the upper atmosphere, as well as the circulation of the oceans. Other experiments shed doubt on the cyclical nature of climate, pointing out that (e.g.) small changes in albedo could reflect sunlight, leading to cooler temperatures, and so on, in a self-reinforcing cycle. The idea of a cyclical climate took a long time to die, and one of my private amusements was reading through a 1950 textbook on atmospheric science. It described the climatic zones of the world as if the annual rainfalls and prevailing winds were graven in stone, and explicitly assigned a small role to CO2. By that time, however, the scientific view was already beginning to change.

In 1949 Callendar published an article titled Can Carbon Dioxide Influence Climate?, which laid out a renewed case for the importance of CO2. The absorption spectra of water vapor and carbon dioxide do not completely overlap, he argued, and although in theory the oceans can absorb a nearly-infinite amount of CO2, the rate of mixing of the upper and lower oceans is very low, and so the oceans provide much less of a buffer in the short term. He also pointed out that the stratosphere was almost devoid of H2O, and that small increases in the composition of the outer atmosphere could have a disproportionately large effect. More generally we can say that increasing the partial pressure of CO2 increases the extent of the CO2-rich layer, raising the effective top-of-atmosphere.

There were a number of unknowns at this point. It was not known for sure whether solar output was constant, or whether the global concentration of carbon was increasing, or whether the influence of carbon dioxide would be outstripped by the influence of particulates or other polluting gases. Solar observations since then suggest that solar output is constant to within .1 percent. The potential cooling effect of particulates and aerosols was the topic of active debate until the mid-1970s, and I'm told that some periodicals published lurid extrapolations of this research. Measuring the global concentration of CO2 was something of a challenge, but it was eventually met in 1958-61 by one Charles Keeling, who established a global baseline for CO2 concentrations, showed a large seasonal variation in the same, and finally showed that the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere were indeed increasing as predicted.

Since then we have seen steadily rising atmospheric concentrations and global temperatures. Better atmospheric modeling and stricter pollution controls reduced the potential threat of cooling. Another potential avenue of escape was offered by the complexities of H2O interactions. By itself, CO2 is not all that much of a concern. The no-feedback forcing per doubling is calculated at ~3.7 W/m^2, which is generally held to be about equivalent to 1 degree of warming per doubling. And if that were all we could expect, we probably would be talking about ocean acidification instead of global warming. However, water vapor is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2, and there's quite a bit of water lying around most everywhere here, and the atmosphere can hold exponentially more water the warmer it becomes, so a naive calculation would suggest an unbounded positive feedback loop. Fortunately this is not observed. The interactions of water in its various states are quite complex, so at this point we essentially had to leave the laboratory and try to study the Earth as a system.

That part is hard. Warmer tropical currents could shut down the Gulf Stream, which would probably result in Europe freezing solid, and ironically provide the impetus for a new Ice Age. (opinion) The strongest skeptical argument presented recently would probably be Lindzen's Iris hypothesis, which suggests that increased cloud coverage could offset rising temperatures. Unfortunately the balance of evidence suggests otherwise. "Something lurking in the H2O feedback" is at this point about all that would save us, and any potential mitigating effect would generally have to be both large in magnitude, to counteract the H2O feedback, and also presumably small enough not to have been noticed. Without getting spectacularly hand-wavy with physics, one might also posit some unknown interaction in the upper atmosphere which would conveniently transfer large amounts of heat into space. The oceans are pretty much ruled out, the optical properties of CO2 are beyond dispute, and hoping for an exception to the laws of thermodynamics is probably a tad optimistic.

The linked ebook should provide adequate citations for all of the above, and the research papers should all be freely available online. Do please respond if you have any further questions, or if you would like any assistance in finding citations. Also, while I have read a fair amount on this subject, I am a layman, not a climate scientist, and the above being somewhat extemporaneous, I would also be appreciative of any chance to correct any mischaracterizations.

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