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Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

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Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#91

Post by killerdhmo »

maddyboo wrote: post #52
alberth wrote: post #11

Their efficiency is impressive. On an annualized basis, they are doing ~$120B. They have ~85k employees. That means they are generating ~1.5M Revenue Per Employee. That's crazy

Who is counted in the 85k number? Are low-wage positions (like janitorial services) considered employees, or are they employed through subcontractors?

Google counts them differently. When I worked there a few years ago, it was 65k FTE, and 65k TVCs (Temps, Vendors, Contractors). TVCs included the shuttle drivers, janitorial staff, etc. but also included some part time / temp "typical FTE roles" like UX researchers.

My guess is that this 85k is just FTE

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#92

Post by YokoZar »

bearjaws wrote: post #90
pg_bot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's politically unpopular, but most economists across the political spectrum believe that corporate taxes should be eliminated entirely.[0] It's more effective to tax people directly as the corporate tax is extremely volatile and it takes away money that could be productively reinvested. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/18/156928675/epis...

Except the last tax holiday on corporations resulted in them reinvesting almost all of it into stock buy backs and dividends. The myth that lowering taxes on corporations results in economic growth needs to die. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24... "A 2007 academic study by Roy Clemons, then a graduate student at Texas A&M University, that was based on earlier data, found that the tax break…

When you tax people directly, you recover money earned by people through corporate stock buy backs and dividends. Those are all taxable income.

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#93

Post by pg_bot »

eganist wrote: post #79
pg_bot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's politically unpopular, but most economists across the political spectrum believe that corporate taxes should be eliminated entirely.[0] It's more effective to tax people directly as the corporate tax is extremely volatile and it takes away money that could be productively reinvested. [0] https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/18/156928675/epis...

Or, rather than give corporations the option of reinvesting liquidity, we can incentivize reinvestment by taxing the crap out of corporations. I don't understand how the "tax cuts grow reinvestment" argument sways people. Investments into the business are deductible as expenses, meaning doing the exact opposite of a tax cut will actually drive reinvestment far more effectively. Cutting taxes allows for stakeholders t…

While corporations have the legal obligation to collect and pay taxes, only real people can bear the economic burden of the tax. The people who pay the tax are principally shareholders and workers of the corporation. It is up for debate how this responsibility is distributed but there is a growing body of evidence that the proportion is skewed towards labor, since capital can move more freely than labor.[0] We should expect to see higher wages for labor in that case which is what you seem to be advocating for.

[0] http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/capital-income-t...

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#94

Post by bearjaws »

rayiner wrote: post #86
bearjaws wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It raises very little money due to how many loop holes are deliberately left in our tax code. Adding a tax to the middle class without a corresponding raise in income will result in economic downturn, especially since we are increasing interest rates on an already debt-burdened middle class.

It's not a "loop hole" if its a purposeful design. Countries make the deliberate decision to tax individuals instead of corporations because its easier (and related decisions like taxing capital gains at lower rates). Even countries like Sweden focus taxation on the middle class, with lower corporate taxes and a much less progressive tax structure than the U.S., because it's easier. It's a deliberate fiscal policy.

Oh so its "purposeful" that corporations in the US move their money through 3 different nations to avoid paying taxes?

All 3 nations got together and decided that was the best way to go about it?

That makes sense.

Also the effective corporate tax rate in Sweden is almost double that of the rate Google paid. Claiming that Western European countries pay less in taxes is naive, as their corporations have far fewer loop holes to lower their tax rate.

Maybe if American corporations actually paid the rate they are supposed to we would have a high tax rate, but very few large corporations do.

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#95

Post by aaavl2821 »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #39
kgwgk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is curious about what companies in the S&P 500 rank higher in the revenue per employee metric: https://craft.co/reports/s-p-500-revenue-per-employee-perspe...

Not a far comparison considering the size of some of the companies. Definetely needs to be weighted. An example, Murphy Oil Corporation has 1,294 employees... Also another interesting trend is how many healthcare companies are in that list.

Healthcare is just under 20% of US GDP and 20% of the companies are in healthcare

AmerisourceBergen is a drug distributor / wholesaler, so they have huge revenues bc they sell expensive drugs, but they don't capture much of that (their net income is negative)

Express scripts is a PBM and highly profitable. I don't really know what PBMs do at a useful level of detail, but their profitability has been a subject of debate as pharma companies blame them for high prices. They basically aggregate demand for drugs and negotiate prices on behalf of payers, and make money on their ability to do so

Gilead had one of the best selling drugs of all time, that did $5B in revenue in the first quarter of launch, and $20B+ in the first year I think. Since then rev has declined but still massive

The insurance companies get lots of rev from premiums but margins are low

Biogen and celgene also have one or two drugs that do $5-10B / year

Should note that drugs only account for 10% of health spend. The biggest driver of healthcare costs -- hospital care (30%) and physician services (20%) don't show up in this chart bc they are fragmented industries and also human-capital intensive

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#96

Post by dlp211 »

briandear wrote: post #84
aphextron wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just corporate rates. Doubling the standard deduction is the most reckless thing that has ever been done to our federal tax code for individuals. The fact that I am going to pay an effective 15% this year on a $100k salary is absolutely insane.

So send a check to the Treasury. Nobody is stopping you. You could even organize a bunch of like minded people to send checks to the Treasury. I needed the tax cut. If you don’t, you don’t have to keep it. I am a better steward of my money than the government, especially when it comes to saving and investing for my family’s future.

If you needed the tax cut, you likely didn't get much of a tax cut.

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#97

Post by bearjaws »

YokoZar wrote: post #92
bearjaws wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the last tax holiday on corporations resulted in them reinvesting almost all of it into stock buy backs and dividends. The myth that lowering taxes on corporations results in economic growth needs to die. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/worldbusiness/24... "A 2007 academic study by Roy Clemons, then a graduate student at Texas A&M University, that was based on earlier data, found that the tax break…

When you tax people directly, you recover money earned by people through corporate stock buy backs and dividends. Those are all taxable income.

Yes but the goal of the bill (and any time someone brings up reducing taxes on corporations really) was economic grow, which never happened.

Also capital gains tax is unfair to lower income individuals. We can invest money and afford to wait a year to see gains (and the obscenely cheap 15% tax rate). Most individuals cannot even invest, yet alone let their money sit for a year.

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#98

Post by Chriky »

briandear wrote: post #65
aphextron wrote: post #10

>Effective tax rate 11% Absolutely obscene. Literally their entire Net Income increase from $5.4b to $9.4b is due to a tax cut from 20%. We will be paying for this Republican tax policy for the rest of our lives.

How? Google’s money doesn’t belong to you or the government. Taxes shouldn’t be confiscatory. Is Google using more government services than a less profitable company or a similar size? Of course not. So why should they pay more? How about the millions in taxes paid by their employees? Or the millions in sales taxes paid by employees, or the millions in property taxes paid by employees? Or all of the businesses who se…

The Laffer Curve makes a number of assumptions without evidence, most notably that tax revenue as function of tax rate is memoryless, when it obviously isn't.

This is ignoring the issue, even when accepting the Laffer curve as true, that the revenue maximising rate would surely be well above what would be morally acceptable to enforce (~75%)

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#99

Post by bitmapbrother »

aphextron wrote: post #10

>Effective tax rate 11% Absolutely obscene. Literally their entire Net Income increase from $5.4b to $9.4b is due to a tax cut from 20%. We will be paying for this Republican tax policy for the rest of our lives.

If paying 11% is Absolutely obscene I would like to know what the adjective is for Amazon paying 0%.

Re: Alphabet Q1 2018 Earnings [pdf]

#100

Post by rayiner »

bearjaws wrote: post #94
rayiner wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a "loop hole" if its a purposeful design. Countries make the deliberate decision to tax individuals instead of corporations because its easier (and related decisions like taxing capital gains at lower rates). Even countries like Sweden focus taxation on the middle class, with lower corporate taxes and a much less progressive tax structure than the U.S., because it's easier. It's a deliberate fiscal policy.

Oh so its "purposeful" that corporations in the US move their money through 3 different nations to avoid paying taxes? All 3 nations got together and decided that was the best way to go about it? That makes sense. Also the effective corporate tax rate in Sweden is almost double that of the rate Google paid. Claiming that Western European countries pay less in taxes is naive, as their corporations have far fewer loop…

Now you're changing the subject. Is your point that loop holes exist (which I don't dispute), or that loop holes are the reason why corporate taxes don't raise much money (which is wrong)? Those are two different points.

Google's 11% tax rate probably is the result of loop holes. But most companies don't deal in bits and IP that can be moved around to take advantage of international arbitrage. Walmart pays 29% taxes.

The result is that even accounting for Googles, our effective tax rate is high compared to European countries: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797699/fact-check-does-the... (see the second chart). 18.6% versus 11.2% for France.

"Republican tax policy" will bring that down somewhat. But corporate income taxes only bring in 9% of revenue. Even if you doubled them they'd be only 18% of revenue. But your effective tax rate would be more than triple that of France.

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