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Linus Torvalds became US citizen

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Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#71

Post by mike-cardwell »

scrrr wrote: post #59
mike-cardwell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more to a country than being a place of work.

Sure, but this is also true for the city you are in, the neighborhood and the street. I'm not historian but I suppose throughout history the space that we call home became bigger and bigger as time went by. Perhaps first it was a cave, at some point it was a village, then it was a city and eventually it was a country. I guess what I mean is that eventually countries will go away. And calling them "old-school" was ass…

I don't see that happening ever. Not unless the human condition changes significantly. I currently see it more likely that we will end up with more countries, not less countries.

If countries "go away", what do you suggest they would be replaced by?

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#72

Post by kiuyhjk »

scrrr wrote: post #38

Countries are such an old-school concept somehow. EDIT: Downvotes? Come on. Especially today, especially in our world of modern technology, physical location is less important than ever before. Where's the sci-fi novel where they abolished countries after they found out we all live on a tiny planet orbiting one of a billion stars?

Welcome to Europe. 500 years ago it was mostly principalities and city states, tried empires for a while, then we had countries for a few 100 years - now we are trying to abolish them again. It's very much a British (actually English) idea that countries are eternal and inviolate.

IIRC Singapore and a bunch of other high tech SE Asian countries essentially did the same thing. Anybody with a high tech qualification, eg a CS degree, could live and work in any of the club no questions asked.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#73

Post by sasvari »

kiuyhjk wrote: post #69
portman wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a dual citizen of the UK and US. Among my close friends, I know Canadian, Israeli, and Australian dual-citizens. I've never heard of having to "renounce all other allegiances". (Note: it's entirely possible that there is some obscure method of obtaining US citizenship that requires it; but that's not the norm.)

Some countries don't allow dual citizenship. My German friends had to renounce their German citizenship when they became Americans (again for the green card). It made it very tricky tax-wise when their parents died and they suddenly became foreigners (to Germany) owning a lot of German assets.

as far as I know, it's possible to apply for keeping your German citizenship when gaining the one of another country. you have to justify it with family relations or something like that. at least it's possible, but I don't know about the trouble you have with that ...

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#74

Post by kiuyhjk »

avar wrote: post #31
kiuyhjk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or being so inflexible with regard to immigration that the only way to work there without facing immediate deportation if you change jobs is to become a citizen. I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without having to change nationality.

I'm pretty sure it's 30. I have an Icelandic citizenship (Iceland is one of the 30 in the EEA), and I'm working freely in one of the 27 EU countries currently. All I had to do after I moves was to register with the local city authorities to indicate that I had moved there, and provide documentation proving that I had a job so that they knew they didn't have to put me on social security. One might also make the counte…

There are some differences, a US friend of mine did law in the UK which meant she could work anywhere from Finland to Greece. But when she passed the New York bar she couldn't work in New Jersey.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#75

Post by scrrr »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #71
scrrr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but this is also true for the city you are in, the neighborhood and the street. I'm not historian but I suppose throughout history the space that we call home became bigger and bigger as time went by. Perhaps first it was a cave, at some point it was a village, then it was a city and eventually it was a country. I guess what I mean is that eventually countries will go away. And calling them "old-school" was ass…

I don't see that happening ever. Not unless the human condition changes significantly. I currently see it more likely that we will end up with more countries, not less countries. If countries "go away", what do you suggest they would be replaced by?

Things like the European Union. It's not always pretty but it works.

Perhaps after that it will be planets (if you like Futurama), or religions, philosophies or even brands. :) Who knows.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#76

Post by jimbokun »

avar wrote: post #30
dctoedt wrote: post #20

Not to be all nationalistic or anything (and it's been said before), but it is interesting that people seem to immigrate to the U.S. far more than they emigrate from it.

I think not learning a second language has a lot to do with it. It's easy for most Europeans to pick up another language since they've already mastered a foreign language or two (including English). But it's much harder for someone from the US to move to central Europe, aside from the UK and some enclaves that speak English.

That is certainly part of it. But I also think some other countries do a worse job welcoming immigrants. Japan notoriously so. Is it easy to become a citizen of China or India if you want to "outsource yourself"? The EU gives essentially a free migration pass to all member countries, but how is it coming from outside of Europe?

Any of you hackers care to comment on the situation in your nation of origin, or the one where you live?

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#77

Post by kiuyhjk »

jbarham wrote: post #50
kiuyhjk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or being so inflexible with regard to immigration that the only way to work there without facing immediate deportation if you change jobs is to become a citizen. I can live and work permanently in 27 countries (including Finland) without having to change nationality.

Incorrect. Green card holders (i.e., US permanent residents, but non-citizens) do not face "immediate deportation" if they change jobs.

No but it's still a hassle not being a citizen - especially if you travel a lot.

By contrast Canadian permanent residents are treated exactly the same as citizens - except you can't vote in federal elections. Although with the choices on offer that's probably a blessing !

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#78

Post by statictype »

nkassis wrote: post #12
unwind wrote: post #4

A quick check of Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_nationality_law#Dual_ci... ) seems to indicate that he's still a Finn, since Finland permits dual citizenship. The USA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#D... ) seems to permit it, too. Of course I can't know if Mr Torvalds has done anything in particular to only be a US citizen, but at least that doesn't seem to be the defaul…

That's interesting. I've heard that dual citizenship wasn't exactly liked by the US government. I was under the impression that US citizens that move to other countries had to renounce their US citizenship before becoming citizen of the other country.

Not true. You can hold US Citizenship and gain citizenship of other countries as well. The question is whether the other country will allow you to keep your US citizenship or not.

For example, I believe Singapore requires you to renounce any other citizenship you have if you are eligible to become a Singaporean.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#79

Post by mike-cardwell »

apgwoz wrote: post #62
mike-cardwell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By living in a European country.

I'm not sure why we're both getting downvoted for this. It was a valid question, and a valid response. Thanks for the answer. I did not realize the EU had this privilege.

I suspect in my case it is because I said "European country" rather than "European Union country." Not all European countries are in the EU. The Wikipedia article on the EU has all sorts of interesting information:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/European_Unio...

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#80

Post by [deleted] »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #68
gojomo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all we know he hates the USA...? For all we know, he's the first in a series of genetically-engineered Finnish super-programmers, part of a growing sleeper cell of infiltrators hell(sinki)-bent on Finlandizing the USA via secret trapdoors in their code, all waiting for the flip of a single bit to instantly erase all memory of the Constitution and replace it with a Scandinavian welfare-state, then killing our lead…

Exactly!

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