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The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

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Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#101

Post by kop316 »

greenhouse_gas wrote: post #99
kop316 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll copy an earlier post of what I found: On Android, I noted before that when I turned on and off location services, the GPS lock was near instantaneous (i.e. when I turned on location, Google Maps located me with GPS precision immediately. There could be other ways of how this happens, it was noted in another post of mine, but that had still had me a bit suspicious. I replaced Google Play Services with microG rece…

Wait, microG does this stuff too? Or did you mean OpenGApps?

OpenGApps is Google Play Services, the only thing open about it is the script to get Google's Apps.

I meant MicroG, it is documented on their site (see the link).

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#102

Post by jstarfish »

Erwin wrote: post #88
oldcynic wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're effectively suggesting people take all their business offline again. When I walk into store (a) it's reasonable to assume that store (a) might be observing my behaviour, along with perhaps a sub-contracted security company etc. It's less reasonable to assume that walking into store (a) gets me observed by stores b-z and subcontractor 1-255 which is more like what happens on the web. They don't generally follow…

Sounds like applying the web tracking to the real world could be the next evil business idea. When I somehow get upgraded to business class while flying it is rather flattering to be greeted by the stewards by name while being offered a glass of decent champagne. What if your store could do the same for people considered social influencers or "whale" spenders? As they enter the store, dispatch your Personal Shopper s…

> Sounds like applying the web tracking to the real world could be the next evil business idea.

At what point does this behavior run afoul of stalking laws?

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#103

Post by rhizome »

delroth wrote: post #86
dualboot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just what they collect with a single service. It's the amount of clarity that comes from a linkage with their other collected data sets.

On that same web page: > We don't correlate or combine information from our temporary or permanent logs with any personal information that you have provided Google for other services. Of course, all of that is meaningless if you want to think that Google is lying in its privacy policies. (Disclaimer: I work at Google, but not on 8888).

We don't correlate or combine information from our temporary or permanent logs with any personal information

I'd say that depends on what definition of "personal" they're using.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#104

Post by rhizome »

Shivetya wrote: post #59
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #55

Why is Apple given a pass? They gave all their China user data to the China government so they could stay in China to make a buck. Is that not selling users data? Versus Google chose to leave China instead of handing over the data. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

Because Facebook sold to an entity with the wrong political affiliation and we still have not passed the stage of one group in denial for why they lost and until they exhaust things to point fingers at it is not coming to an end soon. We all should be highly critical of Apple's stance in China and we should all fear the direction China is going because a great many Western politicians like that direction too and simp…

Because Facebook sold to an entity with the wrong political affiliation

Can you clarify what you mean by "sold" here?

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#105

Post by 908087 »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #71
ballenf wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty cool looking service. Since I've never heard of it, I wish the down voters would explain the problem with it (at the time of writing it's a dark gray, so only a little negative). Is it simply that people don't seem library CDNs as a source of privacy piercing data?

I guess the problem is that one-liners that just drop a link without explanation are suspected to be spam and they often are.

That certainly wasn't spam, but unfortunately I was in the middle of something else at the time and didn't have time to post the explanation I probably should have included.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#106

Post by _o_ »

cbr wrote: post #72
cryptonector wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's picking a nit. GP or whatever said "GPS", but does it matter which technology is used to track your location? Clearly not. And many users say "GPS" to mean all location technologies too, so this doesn't seem like a useful nit to pick, honestly.

Every time you load a web page they can see your IP address, and IP addresses can be mapped back to rough locations. Sometimes people use "GPS" to also include things like your phone figuring out where it is based on what WiFi names it can see, but I don't think I've ever seen it for IP-based geolocation. (Disclaimer: I'm an engineer at Google)

Stop communicating silently with your servers. Do it. Ask for each and every call to them unless the communication is already confirmed by users. Make all http* communication go trough http proxy which logs all the traffic in clearly visible form and only than make https. Show the data sent, make google play and framework open source. Enable users to see your hidden syncs (oh yeah those with asterisks infront (you DO know about them, right?) and disable them and keep their settings after updates instead of resetting them. Explain why with microg, the battery and network usage drops for 1/3. And I am not using any of your "services", no maps, no gmail, dns (oh yeah my rom is modified, a lot) nothing. Stop bubbling! Stop corelating order of pages visited to fingerprint users (and I know you are doing this), stop using cell towers to get location even if gps is turned off. Stop giving ISPs your boxes which makes spying on users local on ISP level.

Either you have no clue about what is going on in your company or you are here as a PR guy.

I really hope that GDPR will hit you hard, as far as I am concerned you are far worse than Facebook, more harmfull than Monsanto, you have opened Pandoras box of user tracking and becoase of you now every single company is doing it. And just so you know, by writting this, my karma will fall for at least 10 points as your fanbase (which typically doesnt even understand what I have written) will downvote me a lot. I am telling you this just for you to understand how very pissed off on behaviour of your company some people are. The only thing that is into your favor was actually your biggest mistake - you have mistakenly made android open source which makes it far more feasible to silence it down to the point where it no longer communicates with your domains. This was maybe when you were still having the "don't be evil" attitude, at least as form of PR.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#107

Post by bduerst »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #100
mihaifm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Drive With the small drop of faith I have left in Google, I want to believe they don't read my files and use encryption. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/875bu4/goog...

Why not just link the article directly? [1] That KIA subreddit is notorious for being scummy [2]

1. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kgwnp/porn-on-go...

2. https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/2/16591508/reddit-content-po...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#108

Post by chongli »

downandout wrote: post #80
laythea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole tracking thing should be outlawed in my opinion. It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. In a world where that is clearly not ok, then why is it that this kind of thing (tracking) is deemed ok? What we need is something that does to our online privacy, what curtains did for peoples real…

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy.

That's not true at all. When I go to the hardware store to buy a box of nails, I don't have any expectation for the owner to begin following me around for the rest of the day (and in perpetuity thereafter). I also don't expect the hardware store owner to get on the phone with the grocery store owner and ask him what groceries and personal hygiene products I bought.

Also, the comment originally pertained to the Wall Street Journal, a newspaper. Are you suggesting that reading the newspaper at home grants the publisher the right to peer in through my window?

Expectations of privacy have long been enforced by social norms rather than laws. Since technology has granted corporations the means to do an end-run around social norms then we should expect the law to catch up and fill the gaps.

People may not have had a lot of privacy from their neighbours when living in small towns but they could generally count on their community to care about their well being. This is not the case with online businesses of any sort.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#109

Post by downandout »

Govannon wrote: post #94
downandout wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

>Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. This is only somewhat true. At the spa for instance, you very much have an expectation of privacy. Practically speaking it is sort of contextual? Even at say a restaurant, I would be both surprised and disconcerted to discovered the business had recorded the entire conversation that occurred at my table, even though I would be…

There are laws that specify that certain types of surveillance/tracking cannot take place. In most states, you cannot be recorded in the bathroom, for example. There are also federal laws against recording of audio in most public places - this is why casinos have incredibly sophisticated video surveillance and analysis software, but do not have microphones to listen in on conversations.

So the rules of the tracking and surveillance road are well defined, and most businesses adhere to those rules. All of the privacy complaints I have seen recently did not involve violations of the law. Rather, these complaints are essentially that people have a fundamental human right to use private services being run at the cost of private entities on the terms that users choose, which just isn't how the world works.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#110

Post by downandout »

chongli wrote: post #108
downandout wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. That's not true at all. When I go to the hardware store to buy a box of nails, I don't have any expectation for the owner to begin following me around for the rest of the day (and in perpetuity thereafter). I also don't expect the hardware store owner to get on the phone with the grocery store owner and ask him what groceries a…

Are you suggesting that reading the newspaper at home grants the publisher the right to peer in through my window?

No, nor did I even intimate that. That's your property, not mine. That suggestion is as ridiculous as the one I was trying to refute. But when you enter my property - be it virtual or phyiscal - expect to be observed using whatever technologies and vendors I want that are legal (with a few obvious legal exceptions, such as bathroom surveillance). If, to continue with your newspaper example, you took your newspaper into my store and decided to read it there, I am fully within my rights to observe that you did that, watch you to see if you buy something while you're there, and see if others exhibit that same behavior. Depending on the results of that analysis, I might then decide to move the newspapers to the front of the store, near tables, where you can sit and read because I have determined that newspaper readers are profitable customers. There's nothing wrong with that - I've now used data obtained while you were in my store (where you have no expectation of privacy) to improve both your experience and my profitability.

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