Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#71

Post by Djvacto » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 1:00 PM UTC

rhodysurf wrote: post #59

sjroot wrote: post #57

The one thing I don't understand about Venmo is that it, based on my (limited) use, seems to show transactions amongst users in a "social networking" manner. I believe you are able to make your activity private, but why would anyone want it any other way? Am I the only one who thinks this is absolutely absurd? I am a very happy user of Square Cash as a result.

Sort of. It shows who paid who and their comment, but it does NOT show how much money was exchanged.

Yep. I made mine private by default, but it is basically just a way to send a friend money, that if you leave it public to other friends, is just a way to share jokes.

Paying a roommate for utilities but setting the description to the tongue-out emoji and an eggplant, or something similarly silly.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#72

Post by throw7 » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

herpderperator wrote: post #47

throw7 wrote: post #44

I've had problems with all of these online cash transfer "apps", so much so that I don't trust any of them. Venmo flagged my account and required me to "call them up" to "fix" things (yeah no). I've used google pay the most, but I've sent money with google pay that never reached the destination bank (the destination bank said it was "google's fault", whatever we canceled the transactions). I've sent money to an assoc…

If your bank flags and blocks your credit card for suspicious activity which you didn't initiate, are you going to "yeah no" them too, and refuse to call them up? There is nothing wrong with having to call up a financial institution to verify things that raise alarm bells for them.

For credit cards/banks, yes, but I can live without venmo. I initiated the transfer, but they then blocked my account, so I closed the account.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#73

Post by magduf » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

dawhizkid wrote: post #32

metei wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of banks and Credit Unions have implemented Zelle in app, its the last gasp they have to compete against Venmo. The only upside to Zelle is essentially offering instant transfers for free, where Venmo makes you wait a few days or pay $0.25.

That’s a pretty huge upside IMO... It’s actually even faster than instant deposit on Venmo because the funds appear to settle instantly (not just transferred instantly)

It is pretty huge, and as long as you're using it with people you actually trust, it should be safe.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#74

Post by panarky » Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

ianburrell wrote: post #66

panarky wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Venmo is the same way. If Venmo reverses payment due to claims of fraud, then this is pretty much the exact opposite of Zelle. That makes Venmo more like PayPal, with a dispute resolution process. Zelle doesn't care if your counterparty is a scammer. If you initiated the payment, the money is gone.

There are two different kinds of fraud. One is where there is fraudulent payment like from account being taken over. Venmo and Zelle can reverse those transactions. The other kind is where purchase is fraudulent. Venmo and Zelle don't offer any protection for purchases or sales. It is only credit cards and equivalent that offer purchase protection.

> It is only credit cards and equivalent that offer purchase protection

And PayPal, Payza, etc.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#75

Post by JadeNB » Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 9:29 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #48

btbuilder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this has to do with a fundamental difference in how sensitive account number and routing numbers are in the US compared with other international financial systems I have used. In the US, if someone has your account number and routing number you can attempt all sorts of fraud via the eCheck system. People and companies are wary about giving out their account numbers. Providing an account number here is more of…

The account number is literally on the bottom of your checks. It's not a secret and shouldn't be treated as one. Also in Australia/NZ, transfers are two directional as well. But just like the US, transfers happen in batches and through authorized banks (well until very recently when AU implemented instant transfer). As long as it's within the same country, you can track down fraud and close down those accounts. ACH i…

> The account number is literally on the bottom of your checks. It's not a secret and shouldn't be treated as one.

Both parts of your second sentence are true, but, I think, irrelevant in practice: much like the SSN, which isn't meant for and shouldn't be used for identification but nonetheless is, the account number shouldn't be treated as a secret but is, in the sense that banks permit withdrawal activity on the basis of just the account number. They shouldn't! But they do.