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Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

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Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#301
Bad assumptions in the article. Firstly, rent in major cities (like where many of us live) is higher, sometimes much higher, than the mortgage payments for similar properties (home prices in my area give a mortgage payment of around 1500... rents are at 3k).

Secondly, you can get homes for way less than 20% down without huge jumps in total cost these days through various programs. The people making the choice between renting and buying are those who would be taking advantage of programs like FHA loans.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#303
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> owning is cheaper than renting This is the key thing! Obviously owning is cheaper than renting, as renters have to cover the costs of their landlord owning, and then some profit for them on top of that.

The market tends to decouple from that logic in an appreciating market. My landlord bought the house I'm in about 10 years ago. His mortgage is a fixed monthly payment that's locked in from when my house was worth less than half it's current value. The rent for where I live tracks really closely to the mortgage rate it'd cost me to buy at it's current valuation . For any investor that bought a rental right now, they'…

>The market tends to decouple from that logic in an appreciating market.

I don't know how decoupled but I definitely know of cases where someone bought and has a good longterm tenant and that tenant gets a pretty good rate because they're profitable, a known entity, and low maintenance.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#304

A good way of looking at the “hidden cost” of buying your home- when you get a mortgage to buy a house, you’ve simply shifted from renting your home to renting the money used to buy your home . Since your house and that cash are (sorta definitionally) worth the same amount, which you do makes less of a difference than you would think. (And no, it doesn’t matter that the mortgage money is “rent to own”- as the article…

This is the best way to think about it. You're renting the money and choosing to invest it in a house.

Of course no one would ever give you half a million in cash with a 50k deposit, so even if there was a better place to investment the money (e.g. stocks) you couldn't put it there anyway.

A mortgage is probably the only way a common person can get this kind of leverage and invest in any asset class. It's really unlikely you have access to some other capital at a cheaper rate (even though a mortgage at 90% loan to value can be expensive, it's almost always the cheapest form of a "normal" person will get), so it usually makes sense to get one.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#305

What about self-modifying renting contracts? In Germany, some contracts increase 3% every year, not that cheap. And what happens when you're in retirement and your pension isn't as much as when you were working? Can you keep with the rent?

This is why I eventually bit the bullet and purchase the home. I didn't want to be 65 years old trying to deal with increasing rent on a fixed income in retirement.

To be fair, you may want to retire somewhere different from where you live when you're working--and may want, for example, a smaller place that requires less maintenance. But, yes, there's a strong argument for the desirability of owning your own place if you're a healthy 65 year old because you don't want to one day wake up and find you need to move in a couple months because an owner has sold a building.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the average term of a lease is only 24-36 months while the length of term for financing a car is 60-84 months. (I had a 72 month plan). So you can get out of a lease much earlier, and if you do exit early, you typically only have to make the next 6 months of payments.

A 6 year finance plan is quite a long term. I financed my first car over a 3 year term. You could equally have taken out a 72 month lease and been stuck in the same (possibly even worse) situation. > if you do exit early, you typically only have to make the next 6 months of payments. Two things here. 1) I doubt that most leases will let you terminate the contract that early, and 2) if you can, you still have 6 months…

A 3 year term would not have been possible at my then current salary to finance the car. The standard term period (when I was buying) was 5-5.5 years.

In hindsight its easy to look back on what I could have done differently, but I guess that's point. When first graduating, I wouldn't recommend entering into even a medium term financial commitment as things can change so quickly within your first few years in the professional world.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#307
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a drop in the local housing market lead to you losing your job? A general market crash causes many people to lose their jobs, it doesn’t discriminate against homeowners. The renters are probably in a worse position in that case too, stop paying rent for a month and you’ll be evicted the next month. Stop paying your mortgage and the bank will at least work with you for a little longer.

Yeah, like the landlord won't work with you for a little longer in a global crash? They will be very eager to start looking for new tenants? Of course, if your job is remote, a local crash won't make you lose your job, but if it's local... prices just don't drop locally without reasons.

Around here most management companies probably wouldn’t care.

These aren’t small mom and pop operations but companies with straightforward rules. You’d probably get an eviction notice before a human was in the loop.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#308

I'm fed up of having this argument in London. I rent, and pay about 2% of the value of the property in a year. I get around 8% on shares over the last ten years. Renting is an absolute no-brainer for me. People are shocked when I tell them how much return I get on my savings vs how much my rent is, especially when I tell them where I live (a 'premium' part of London).

Your numbers don't add up. You live in a premium location, I guess a nice part of zone 2? So let's say 1mn GBP for a 3 bedroom house.

You pay 20k/year in rent (2%) = 1666/month for a 1mn property?

Then you're getting an incredible bargain. You can only get a 1 bedroom flat for about that in a good part of London. A 3 bedroom house would be closer to 3k/month, so really you're looking at 4-5%/year. So the difference in performance is only 2-3%, which would be offset by the gains you'd make in house prices from owning your own place.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#309
Nothing could be better suited to the Boomer condition than buying real estate, so for the class of people who would rather die than think which is the ideal for most americans, cliches about buying always being better than renting ARE true if you're propagandizing legacy boomers about how wise they were to follow the herd a long time ago and BTW here is some delicious clickbait advertisements etc. For everyone else, yeah, not so much.

Schillers graph and assumption miss the point that we're in a long term multi decade credit crisis where the $ of GDP per $ of (new or existing) debt is collapsing. That leads to collapsing interest rates because you can't squeeze blood from a stone, low rates of investment return, hyper focus on risk control and limitation outside VC type gambling, etc. And housing prices are based on a constant $X/month being available to dump into mortgage (or rent) payments, so collapsing interest rates from normal levels when a gen-Xer was a kid to insane low levels now mean insane high real estate prices. House purchasers do not rationally evaluate the worth of a house like Graham and Dodd securities analysis from the 30s... Its a simpler calculation, I make the 95th percentile of income or whatever, I can afford $X/mo the COMMISSIONED real estate agent found me a great home which is also at the 95th percentile of luxury and quality and neighbors which costs $(X1.1)/mo (see comment about being commissioned salespeople, LOL) and at insane present interest rates $(X1.1)/mo magically turns into some insane and detached from reality purchase price. You're always buying the biggest loan you can afford, to live in the same house you'd live in regardless of current interest rate. And if you individually are a cash buyer or some other situation, it doesn't matter the market is swamped with loan buyers who control the price of the market regardless of your different personal situation.

We have too much debt for the size of economy we have, and the aging of generational shifts result in new leading and declining markets, leading to crazy weirdness. That's the current bubble economy in one line.

The main financial puzzle of life in the 10s, 20s, and beyond, is how to profitably short, or at least not get stuck in the carnage, of the post Boomer era in ... everything. Having a giant dollar value illiquid asset stuck like a millstone around your neck is probably not the best strategy for the future even if it was the best strategy for the past, that's all the article is really saying. Leverage is always only numerically illustrated by rising prices; post boomer the prices will fall.

Re: Renting is Throwing Money Away, Right? (2015)

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What all professionals do, and what all potential home buyers should do, is run the actual numbers of expenses that is purely property taxes, interest, fees, expected maintenance, bills such as heating and electricity, and other related expenses not specifically reducing the amount of debt. That is the price of living in the house - compare that to renting a place. The difference between owning and renting expenses,…

But with renting there is no reward. EDIT: In addition to mobility cited by a reply to this comment, another advantage is the saved opportunity cost of investment in real estate vs other markets.

I get to live closely with a bunch of cool people and not isolated in some house in a suburb. I think renting has a nice social benefit.

Plus, the mobility aspect to just pick up and leave gives me a ton of reassurance.

There is also the bonus that someone else has to fix the appliances and do maintanance than me.

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