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What is empathy?

the-tls.co.uk

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Re: What is empathy?

#81

Post by wpietri »

ThomPete wrote: post #53
wpietri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very few people are any of those things in any meaningful way. Then how would you explain, well, most of human history? For example, look at this graph of approval of interracial marriage, which has increased quite steadily: http://news.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-w... What changed, if not the level of racism? Or look at the various declarations of secession of the southern states in the US Civil…

Because they are racist in obvious ways that's not really interesting to me. Historically sure but today its much harder.

You do realize that historically people like yourself said exactly the same thing at the time?

Read white "moderates" from the MLK era, for example. He was quite clear on how unhelpful they were: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/01/15...

Racism and sexism, being dominant paradigms in America, are mostly invisible to the people living them. 50 years from now, people will look back on what has changed and be dumbfounded that we thought we were living in an egalitarian paradise. Just like we look back on the people 50 years before.

Re: What is empathy?

#82

Post by creep »

hliyan wrote: post #49

Having witnessed many cases of individuals who help the poor, donate to cancer/heart patients and then turn on a dime and advocate the carpet bombing of rebel held civilian areas, I'm starting to feel empathy is not the issue. The empathy circuits are intact in most human beings. The problem is dehumanization . Empathy is proportional to how "human" we perceive someone/something to be. We experience the most empathy…

To expand on this, you are likely to do favors for people you know even if it will harm other groups. This happens a lot. There are conspiracy theories galore about big governments and their level of organization to keep the populace out-of-the-loop, but I think it just comes down to rich people who know each other and help each other out at the expense of out-groups. It's an organic process, and not really organized in a strict sense. The Clinton foundation is a good example of this (watch the Clinton Cash documentary).

Re: What is empathy?

#83

Post by creep »

cko wrote: post #28
classics2 wrote: post #7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evwgu369Jw

I used to think I had empathy. I mean, when I see someone being taken advantage of, I tear up immediately. Until one day my mentor straight up told me “you have no empathy.” Which didn’t really bother me, since I’m pretty sure I’m not a sociopath. (Though that probably wouldn’t bother me either, by definition.) Watching that video made me realize that what I usually feel is sympathy. I think I’ve been so fortunate (o…

That's empathy. Empathy is a type of understanding, on any level. Maybe you have not experienced directly what is causing another person's emotional reaction, but you experience their emotional reaction.

Sympathy is more along the lines of caring about someone enough that you care they are in pain. If you don't feel that pain, if you aren't "crying with them", but instead are a shoulder to cry on, that's sympathy.

Both are very related and work together, depending on how close another person is to you.

Re: What is empathy?

#84

Post by Viliam1234 »

Annatar wrote: post #68

Female brains have evolved to be better at empathizing and communicating and are hard-wired for empathy. Male brains are more suited to rational understanding and system-building – from making machines and writing software to engaging in abstract thought, writing music, engaging in politics, or theorizing about the fundamental foundations of physics. And herein is the reason why there are so few female engineers, esp…

> And herein is the reason why there are so few female engineers, especially in computer science, laid bare.

Do I read it correctly that "the reason" does not refer to how brains have evolved, but rather to the belief about how the brains have developed? In other words, do you consider the statement about the brains wrong?

If I understand that right, what other related beliefs do you have about brains? That they are exactly the same for men and women, that sexual hormones have zero influence on development and functioning of human brains, that all differences between male and female thinking and behavior are caused by society? Just making sure I am not debating a strawman.

"Tabula rasa" is a popular opinion in certain political circles, but there are two obvious problems with it:

1) It does not explain differences between male and female behavior in animals. Why do e.g. male birds behave differently from female birds; did patriarchy teach them to? A possible answer would be that evolution created mechanisms that apply to all animals, but for some reasons they do not apply to humans. And then humans invented patriarchy, which by sheer coincidence has a similar effect.

2) How about the brain differences where men get it worse? For example, boys being more likely autistic than girls; did patriarchy also do that? Because I am not aware of patriarchy having high opinion about autism; it seems rather the other way round, nerds being stereotypically bullied by jocks; so why would then patriarchy encourage boys to become more autistic?

Note: I agree that society often wildly exaggerates the gender differences, or adds some extra bullshit. I am just saying that this is an exaggeration and distortion of a real thing, not something invented from scratch.

> little girls should be encouraged to become more involved in being system builders and tinkerers, while little boys should be nurtured to develop and show significantly more empathy. This will be hard going, but the good news is that it is entirely doable.

Lest you get too optimistic, going too far in this direction gives us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Re: What is empathy?

#85

Post by kashyapc »

Paul Bloom (who's provocatively-titled book Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion is prominently discussed in the article) says something like the following:

"For example, consider long-distance charity. Someone who hears about the sorrow of starving children might actually go through the empathetic exercise of imagining what it is like to starve to death. But this empathetic distress surely isn’t necessary for charitable giving. A compassionate person might value others’ lives in the abstract, and, recognizing the misery caused by starvation, be motivated to act accordingly."

It sure makes someone pause and think, but not quite sure how accurate it is in the realm of reality. Bloom's talk feels a bit like clever verbal judo to me. But what do I know...

Re: What is empathy?

#86

Post by ThomPete »

wpietri wrote: post #81
ThomPete wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are racist in obvious ways that's not really interesting to me. Historically sure but today its much harder.

You do realize that historically people like yourself said exactly the same thing at the time? Read white "moderates" from the MLK era, for example. He was quite clear on how unhelpful they were: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/01/15... Racism and sexism, being dominant paradigms in America, are mostly invisible to the people living them. 50 years from now, people will look back on what has cha…

No I don't realize that and I am pretty sure you can't find much that would back that up. People didn't even think in terms of racism it was just what was normal historically. Today we think like that but that also comes with it's own dangers of becoming another kind of opressor.

Re: What is empathy?

#87

Post by Annatar »

Viliam1234 wrote: post #84
Annatar wrote: post #68

Female brains have evolved to be better at empathizing and communicating and are hard-wired for empathy. Male brains are more suited to rational understanding and system-building – from making machines and writing software to engaging in abstract thought, writing music, engaging in politics, or theorizing about the fundamental foundations of physics. And herein is the reason why there are so few female engineers, esp…

> And herein is the reason why there are so few female engineers, especially in computer science, laid bare. Do I read it correctly that "the reason" does not refer to how brains have evolved, but rather to the belief about how the brains have developed? In other words, do you consider the statement about the brains wrong? If I understand that right, what other related beliefs do you have about brains? That they are…

If I understand that right,

You don’t. Males and females are very, very different because of molecular biology. That is obvious. However, those differences do not make one or the other sex superior or inferior. It also does not mean that females aren’t capable of the same things males are. However, how females think is largely negatively skewed by upgringing. For example, when I see a small girl pushing a toy baby carriage, I see all Red because from experience, that’s brainwashing a little girl that girls are meant to incubate offspring. That’s an opportunity to produce a really good system bilder and thinker, or perhaps a scientist, wasted. Females can be just as good engineers and scientists as males if not better, if only they weren’t being brainwashed during their upbringing. As far as I’m concerned, that’s an intellectual atrocity.

Re: What is empathy?

#88

Post by craftyguy »

hliyan wrote: post #74
hliyan wrote: post #49

Having witnessed many cases of individuals who help the poor, donate to cancer/heart patients and then turn on a dime and advocate the carpet bombing of rebel held civilian areas, I'm starting to feel empathy is not the issue. The empathy circuits are intact in most human beings. The problem is dehumanization . Empathy is proportional to how "human" we perceive someone/something to be. We experience the most empathy…

I serendipitously came across this example just now: https://twitter.com/abhishek_mshra/status/987275672543358976 "Cancelled @Olacabs Booking because Driver was Muslim. I don't want to give my money to Jihadi People." Most of the replies in the subsequent thread is in support of the original poster.

Wow what a racist prick.
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