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No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

gregsavage.com.au

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Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#91

Post by roel_v »

kranner wrote: post #49
vishaldpatel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm.. being Indian, I actually thought that he was praising us, rather than trying to offend.

I didn't see the praise. What I really objected to was the stereotyping. I know I'm not the only Indian who cares about punctuality.

'Stereotyping' is just a way to extrapolate past experiences, of yourself or of others, into future situations to make reasonable assumptions about those situations. If it's customary for Indians to be late, it's perfectly reasonable for me to assume you'll be late on an appointment if I don't know anything about you. Once I get to know you, and notice that you're always on time, I will adjust my expectations of appointments with you, and maybe slightly adjust my perception of punctuality amongst Indians in general. Nothing racist or anything about that.

(for the record, my personal perception of Indians is that they are quite punctual, because the Indians I've worked with were, and I didn't really have an opinion about it one way or another before that. Latin Americans on the other hand, let's just say that my experiences only reinforced the preexisting notions...)

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#92

Post by elblanco »

patio11 wrote: post #27
elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

Don't compare "East Asians" disfavorably to American punctuality within earshot of a Japanese salaryman. The line beginning with "other cultures" is untestable horsepuckey reminiscent of the absolute worst tripe in American multicultural studies. And I have a degree in that. It survives only because it flatters the preconceptions of an Ameican subculture in academia who prefers to have a ready critique of Western cul…

I've found that in general, South Koreans both fret uncontrollably over other people's timeliness (viewing it as a form of politeness) and provide all kinds of reasons and self justifications for their own tardiness. One of my friends has gone so far as to say "we care about being on time like a fish cares about water, but being late is just in our genes".

In the end it all sort of averages out and everybody seems to be just a hair perpetually late.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#93

Post by elblanco »

zalew wrote: post #24
elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

That's true. When I've lived in Brasil, we were invited to a party for 7pm and if you came at 0730 you'd see the hosts wandering around in robes, comming about 2hrs late was the appropriate thing to do. It all depends on the local culture. In Poland, besides business meetings, there's a 15 minutes space, only after that it's considered being late; and yes, in big cities we're also all into that western 'being always…

Due to the abysmal and unpredictable traffic situation in D.C., I've noticed people are allowing more and more of a buffer around expected meeting times. It's honestly not anybody's fault if a drive from one part of the region to another, that should take 15 minutes, and usually takes 35 ends up taking 2 and a half (and this is no exaggeration, it drives my business partners from elsewhere absolutely bonkers when they spend any length of time in D.C.).

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#95

Post by elblanco »

kranner wrote: post #72
catshirt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never suggested that deprioritizing punctuality was a flaw of character.

I didn't say they suggested it was a flaw of character (though I've made clear that personally I think it is). Again, I object to the stereotyping. "You're on time. How American of you!"

I've actually heard that exact phrase.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#96

Post by kranner »

roel_v wrote: post #91
kranner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see the praise. What I really objected to was the stereotyping. I know I'm not the only Indian who cares about punctuality.

'Stereotyping' is just a way to extrapolate past experiences, of yourself or of others, into future situations to make reasonable assumptions about those situations. If it's customary for Indians to be late, it's perfectly reasonable for me to assume you'll be late on an appointment if I don't know anything about you. Once I get to know you, and notice that you're always on time, I will adjust my expectations of appo…

According to OS X's dashboard dictionary widget (Oxford American?) Stereotype: a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.

That "oversimplified" is what makes it an unreasonable assumption.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#97

Post by loewenskind »

drusenko wrote: post #53

It's helpful to define what "being late" means. My rule of thumb is 0-5 minutes late is "on time", 5-10 minutes late is "OK but not great", 10-15 minutes late is "somewhat rude" and 15+ minutes late is "very rude". One thing that annoys me to no end: people who are very early. If I plan my schedule carefully around you being there at 2pm (or later) and you show up 20 minutes early, you are going to sit around for 20…

>and I'll feel like an asshole

Why? I would try to make it as uncomfortable for them as possible so they don't do that anymore.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#98

Post by loewenskind »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #83
mike-cardwell wrote: post #82

If I agree to meet someone at a certain time, I make sure I arrive early so as not to keep them waiting. I'd rather arrive early and wait, then arrive late and keep the other person waiting. That is the only polite way to behave when meeting up with somebody.

Also, if an event finishes at a set time of say 8pm, and I'm being picked up. I don't tell the person to pick me up at 8pm. I add maybe 10 minutes on top to make sure I'm out and ready and waiting when they arrive.

You should like someone who puts absolutely everyone ahead of themselves (not making a judgment on if this is good or bad. It's definitely different then me).

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#99

Post by gaius »

martinkallstrom wrote: post #52
megablast wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is late, that is no problem, stuff happens. When someone is always late, that is rude and inconsiderate.

Perhaps the same way dyslectics (sp?) are inconsiderate by always being unable to spell correctly. From time to time, it would be acceptable. Consider that for the person that is always late, it is probably a bigger problem than for you. She has to endure it in all parts of her life. Assuming that the problem is that she simply doesn't care is as ignorant as assuming that a dyslectic simply doesn't care to learn how…

You have to understand what lateness means. If someone is late because she was "getting ready" that means "I would rather spend time looking at myself in a mirror than spend time with you". Friends are not so disrespectful of friends.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#100

Post by Tichy »

btilly wrote: post #34
sabat wrote: post #8

Actually, maybe I'm really busy, and doing the best I can. I value your time, but I value mine more. And obviously you're not as in demand as other people are. Sorry you can't appreciate that.

Actually, maybe I'm really busy, and doing the best I can. No. No matter how busy you are, if you're good at planning you can routinely be on time. If you're bad at planning, then you'll have problems no matter how little you have to do. And if you make a point of surrounding yourself with people who are able to manage to be on time, then you'll all get more done. I value your time, but I value mine more. As my broth…

Can you plan to be on time to the minute, though? With traffic? Or does being on time mean you have to be early, to account for the possibility of travel delays. Then suddenly it becomes expensive to always be on time.
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