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Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

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Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#71

Post by TeMPOraL »

sakuronto wrote: post #43
zxcmx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also you can have interesting rendering possibilities like in-line display of images, charts, tables. Longer-term: new generation of command-line tools with different ux paradigms for interactive use? Like, Funny that people "get" jupityr notebooks but not this.

For what it's worth, I don't get Jupyter notebooks either.

I see them as a "worse is better"-style half-implementation of Org Mode's tangling functionality on a more mainstream stack. For iteratively building a document that's mixed with some code and some output and looks kinda-nice, Jupyter is good enough.

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#72

Post by caspervonb »

fbnlsr wrote: post #63
movedx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good read. Thanks. And I agree: Electron is horrible to deal with as an end-user. I've been using Vim for some time and then decided to use VS Code. The integrations, plugins, and everything else were awesome, but man the 3-4GB of RAM was just crazy. Despite the fact my machine has 16GB of RAM, I'm dealing with quite a few VMs and Docker containers locally, so actually 16GB isn't a lot.

I've been using VSCode for years and it's been great, but I'm always looking for learning something new. I keep reading about Vim and last time I checked it seems SO complicated to use. I don't understand how it's so popular. Is it because it's blazing fast?

Does editing text with the keyboard alone make sense to you? That's the gist of it, you use commands to manipulate text. It's hard to grok at first when you're only used to textarea style editors without modes.

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#73

Post by microtonal »

Immortalin wrote: post #59
caspervonb wrote: post #15

Like I've said a million times, https://medium.com/p/electron-is-cancer-b066108e6c32 Why would you use a full web stack terminal emulator, over.. well a normal native and actually reasonably fast terminal emulator? The trend is catching on, so maybe one day we can't even reach for a native email client because it will be unmaintained in favour of the hackable html webstack email client. Congratulations on reaching v2…

Because it's pretty. Because you get state of the art Unicode decoding and support. Because you can get a terminal on Linux in a first class GUI system that's normalized across all major operating systems backed by billions of investment.

Because you get state of the art Unicode decoding and support.

What does this even mean? UTF-8 decoding is trivial. In fact it's designed to be simple: it's a prefix code that is self-synchronizing.

Rendering glyphs and composing characters is hard in comparison. But Cocoa, Qt, etc. have had great support for rendering unicode for ages now.

I have no recollection of having problems with iTerm, Terminal.app and many Linux terminals for rendering unicode the last decade or so. (Only with people setting their locales wrong.)

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#74

Post by flukus »

owenwil wrote: post #69
movedx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good read. Thanks. And I agree: Electron is horrible to deal with as an end-user. I've been using Vim for some time and then decided to use VS Code. The integrations, plugins, and everything else were awesome, but man the 3-4GB of RAM was just crazy. Despite the fact my machine has 16GB of RAM, I'm dealing with quite a few VMs and Docker containers locally, so actually 16GB isn't a lot.

"Electron is horrible to deal with as an end-user" - this is not reflective of your average user at all. Most people are just happy to have an app that looks, acts and feels native.

The average end-user has less than 4GB of RAM and would struggle to run electron apps at all. They would get frustrated with the computer being slow but would not know who to blame.

Aside from that, electron apps do not look, act or feel native.

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#75

Post by microtonal »

sime2009 wrote: post #52
sakuronto wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about good ol' QT?

The problem is that your language choice is very limited. You can choose C++, no thanks, or Python which is very slow. There are no good options for languages or VMs on Qt in the Java/C#/VM/Jit range of the language performance spectrum.

There are no good options for languages or VMs on Qt in the Java/C#/VM/Jit range of the language performance spectrum.

Qt had pretty good Java support with Qt Jambi. But nobody cared and they cancelled the product.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_Jambi

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#77

Post by movedx »

fbnlsr wrote: post #63
movedx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good read. Thanks. And I agree: Electron is horrible to deal with as an end-user. I've been using Vim for some time and then decided to use VS Code. The integrations, plugins, and everything else were awesome, but man the 3-4GB of RAM was just crazy. Despite the fact my machine has 16GB of RAM, I'm dealing with quite a few VMs and Docker containers locally, so actually 16GB isn't a lot.

I've been using VSCode for years and it's been great, but I'm always looking for learning something new. I keep reading about Vim and last time I checked it seems SO complicated to use. I don't understand how it's so popular. Is it because it's blazing fast?

It has a learning curve that'll take about 2-3 weeks to convert to muscle memory and become habit. Give it a shot. You'll learn something new and if it doesn't work out, VSCode will still be there :-)

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#78

Post by microtonal »

zxcmx wrote: post #36
TeMPOraL wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Easier to make a multiplatform application, compared to alternatives. - Makes it possible for people who don't know (and/or don't want to know) anything beyond the web stack to build "desktop" applications. - Easy to make it look nice by default, because you can reuse all the work that went into building the browser as a runtime, + you have a ton of eyecandy JS libraries to choose from.

Also you can have interesting rendering possibilities like in-line display of images, charts, tables. Longer-term: new generation of command-line tools with different ux paradigms for interactive use? Like, Funny that people "get" jupityr notebooks but not this.

Also you can have interesting rendering possibilities like in-line display of images, charts, tables.

Like iTerm2? ;)

https://iterm2.com/documentation-images.html https://github.com/lunaryorn/mdcat

There are probably Linux terminals that can do the same.

Funny that people "get" jupityr notebooks but not this.

I think one reason is that Jupyter does not sell itself as a UNIX terminal, so people feel less strongly about it. Also, Jupyter uses a web browser that you probably have running anyway.

Re: Hyper 2, Electron based terminal

#80

Post by jannes »

fbnlsr wrote: post #63
movedx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good read. Thanks. And I agree: Electron is horrible to deal with as an end-user. I've been using Vim for some time and then decided to use VS Code. The integrations, plugins, and everything else were awesome, but man the 3-4GB of RAM was just crazy. Despite the fact my machine has 16GB of RAM, I'm dealing with quite a few VMs and Docker containers locally, so actually 16GB isn't a lot.

I've been using VSCode for years and it's been great, but I'm always looking for learning something new. I keep reading about Vim and last time I checked it seems SO complicated to use. I don't understand how it's so popular. Is it because it's blazing fast?

You can use vim keybindings in VSCode. It mostly works, except for more advanced stuff.

Correct indentation when pasting is a pain in my opinion.

And somehow I find the VSCode's multi-cursor feature so much more convenient than Vim's macros.

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