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Walking While Black

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Re: Walking While Black

#31

Post by superkuh »

This was a wonderfully written piece and a lot of it rings true to me even as a white as you can be person in a smallish state university town in the midwest. But maybe being 6'2" with a big unkempt hobo beard is almost as scary as being black.

I too love walking the streets at night. And I too have to not be myself and behave in very conscious ways to avoid being hassled and detained by the police. Police just assume that if you're out at night you are a criminal.

So much of his descriptions of having to learn to dress a certain way, behave a certain way, and literally go out of my way to avoid scaring people rings true. I get detained by the police a handful of times per year just for walking or being in places at times that most people aren't. I particularly get the police called on me if I walk through in rich neighborhoods. I've had firearms pulled on me just for photographing trees in a public park (at night).

I tried to take up jogging for half a year but I quit and bought a bike after being stopped by police for being suspicious three times in as many months. Apparently jogging while not wearing a joggers uniform means I'm up to no good. No non-criminal jogs in cargo pants and a t-shirt. And that was in the day time. I wouldn't even consider trying it at night.

I'm not trying to marginalize his message that skin color is the cause. But it's certainly not the only cause. The root of the problem lies with the police, and society, villifying anyone who isn't diurnal.

Re: Walking While Black

#32

Post by the_greyd »

I would identify as how the author describes, someone who's slightly nervous at the sight of a black male walking towards him at night. I try to suppress this feeling, and try to act normal, at which point I'm really overthinking. And I'm sorry. I am sorry that this has happened to you and to black people in general, how as a society we have fucked up so much. I am suddenly reminded of the book "The Lathe of Heaven", in which when the protagonist wishes a world without racism, and everyone turns grey-skinned. I wish there were immediate solutions, and a way to not let this drag on for generations.

Re: Walking While Black

#34

Post by tailrecursion »

michaelmrose wrote: post #5

When I was growing up I remember the pride our educational system tried to instill in us and it seems so fake in retrospect. It's impossible to be proud of a nation that is only a land of opportunity for those who are white and middle class. Its not that I'm not proud to be an American so much as I don't consider myself one I'm just a person who happens to reside here because I don't have better options.

Middle America is chock full of towns, full of middle class white people who perceive almost zero opportunity.

We have startups, Youtube, online university materials, and enthusiast groups that will assist a motivated, energetic, optimistic person to get ahead.

The second worst thing you can do to a person is tell them not to bother learning a subject because of their skin color.

The worst thing is to add 10 points to each of their test scores, and have them find out.

We've all had people [in grade school] make fun of us for learning computing or frankly being too good at anything. Below average people are always trying to drag us down. But once we get on the other side of a people-filter [such as college or a company] we realize the world is much more egalitarian and full of independent minded people.

[Edits added in brackets]

Re: Walking While Black

#35

Post by jasonkostempski »

lokopodium wrote: post #3

Not hacker, not news.

I'm a flaming flaggot around here (I truly thought I just coined that expression, but [1]). I almost flagged this one, but a black friend of mine recently had Walking While Black story of his own, so I read it. Lo and behold, the story covered his scenario, waving to a cop, first thing. I hear about things like this all the time online; from rappers and comedians; occasional news story; once in a great while, a first-person story from a colored friend. I usually rationalize it away thinking: "That's really only a problem in backwoods towns, far, far from here. Here you get the obligatory asshole cop every now and then, of course, but it's not the norm." This story made me realize A) it doesn't have to be the norm, it just has to be enough to cause someone to ALWAYS be on alert, to be a life altering problem B) No matter how quick I get at dismissing the instinctual thought pattern "different person is scary", the fact remains, I have those thoughts and they likely affect my actions in a way noticeable to other humans. Neither of those realizations are a surprise to me, but this story convinced me I haven't thought critically enough about them. Getting this stubborn old mind to reconsider it's position is an epic hack.

[1] https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flaggot

Re: Walking While Black

#36

Post by darepublic »

whack wrote: post #27
darepublic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its true that it only affords opportunity for the white and middle class. I think you would find many Americans who fit into other categories who disagree with you. Not to say cynically that 'if you don't like it leave', but I'm curious when you say you just happen to reside here for lack of better options -- is there a country in the world you consider to be the ideal, a place more just than America? I…

Racism in America varies greatly, depending on where you live. The following is the most objective metric I could find for racist tendencies in America: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/08/acros... Looking at the map, the Pacific Northwest is one of the least racist, and the south is one of the most racist. This matches pretty well with what I would have expected. Interestingly, NY state itself ran…

I don't find this IAT stuff very convincing. As a counterpoint:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-false-science-of-implicit-b...

Re: Walking While Black

#37

Post by tailrecursion »

superkuh wrote: post #31

This was a wonderfully written piece and a lot of it rings true to me even as a white as you can be person in a smallish state university town in the midwest. But maybe being 6'2" with a big unkempt hobo beard is almost as scary as being black. I too love walking the streets at night. And I too have to not be myself and behave in very conscious ways to avoid being hassled and detained by the police. Police just assum…

Thank you for adding perspective to this issue with police and drawing it out of exclusively-race territory.

I would suggest that perhaps, part of what's happening is that the police are optimizing for a particular metric. We can hope that it's crime reduction, or some number or numbers very close to that.

When you optimize for one metric, other metrics fall.

The police, like most anyone, make errors based on superficial attributes. Even if statistically, arresting tall hobo beard man taking pictures of trees late at night is the best course of action for the police's metrics, you perceive it as a series of stupid errors. This leads to a perception of injustice and harassment.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't mind security check ups and even being stopped by police as long as they are cordial and professional, and, crucially, I understand their reasoning. I recall listening to one black man, I think he was talking to Sam Harris, relating how police would stop black men and grab them. Unprofessional treatment creates a perception of an uncivilized society, and that's unjust.

Re: Walking While Black

#38

Post by dang »

throwawayh9i wrote: post #21
lokopodium wrote: post #3

Not hacker, not news.

I swear, comments like this only come out of the woodwork on articles about things like racism or sexism.

Pretty sure that's sample bias. People definitely make such complaints about other articles that don't match their expectation of this site.

Re: Walking While Black

#40

Post by forapurpose »

dragonmum wrote: post #30
forapurpose wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North America is in fact nothing like the Third Reich. These truly incredible, bizarre claims require extraordinary evidence, not a supposed conversation with a random person. The random person's skin color doesn't make it any more or less likely.

> North America is in fact nothing like the Third Reich. No one said that North America is like the Third Reich. The point is that Hitler aspired to lebensraum (breathing room) for Germanic people and was inspired by the fact that USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand became breathing room for Anglo Saxon people. It is not bizarre or in-credible to see that this analogy holds true and the context of the article "Walkin…

'The U.S. (and, today, Churchill) do it too.' I haven't heard that refrain on HN in at least 5 minutes. Apparently people believe they are magic words that can normalize anything, from Hitler to Russia to China. Am I missing anyone? Stalin? Mao?
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