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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#331

Post by rakoo »

jayd16 wrote: post #307
SamWhited wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say it's not a good mobile protocol? It had some problems in the early 2000s on mobile, but these days it has stream management similar to TCPs and XML compresses very well. As I mentioned in another comment, there are people running it over very low bandwidth HF radio, if it works well there it works well over phones, but I'd be curious to see why people still think otherwise. (Google Talk, naturally,…

What service is using it at scale these days? I can't really think of a popular user. After a certain point it just becomes a headache. When I was working with ejabberd clusters servicing mobile clients it worked but I've had a lot less pain just using a custom protocol over websockets. My personal experience also seems to be mirrored throughout the industry as all the big players eventually move away from xmpp.

Most ironically, Google is using it for their Cloud Messaging solution (https://developers.google.com/cloud-messaging/ccs and https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/server#choo... for the replacement) to allow applications to talk with a backend.. The advantages over HTTP are multiple: better battery life, bidirectional communication, asynchronicity.

Riot Games is also using it for the messaging part of League of Legends (https://engineering.riotgames.com/news/chat-service-architec...)

XMPP is also used by military organisations such as NATO (https://www.isode.com/solutions/military-xmpp.html)

The sad truth about XMPP is that it just works, but it has a very bad publicity because there's just no marketing around it, and it's never used directly by users. So it suffers from that wrong image that is just completely outdated.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#332

Post by spappal »

vijaybritto wrote: post #289
Teckla wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the user is on a WiFi-only tablet, or laptop, or desktop PC? What if the user is at an Internet cafe? What if the phone user has no cellular signal but has WiFi access? Clearly it would be a mistake to limit this to just phone users.

But those things don't sell here. Maybe businesses and professionals buy it but not regular folk. All of them are buying smartphones in millions and going online everyday. Cellular signal is the norm all over the country and we have around 80% of it as villages. So I'm pretty sure all of those use cases come at a distant second. Please read about the impact of Jio in India.

> Please read about the impact of Jio in India.

I read this piece [1] which centers on Jios impact on the telecom industry. It states that the rate of digitalization has been boosted, but doesn't really detail the societal impact. Do you recommend any particular article?

[1]: https://www.ft.com/content/3f1fe4d6-e4e0-11e7-a685-5634466a6...

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#333

Post by diaz »

ar0 wrote: post #266
nostromo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but nobody around here uses SMS or MMS for person to person contact Where are you located? Mac/iOS Messages and/or SMS is my primary way of talking with friends and family. That seems pretty normal for my age range 25-45 and location (Seattle).

I think it depends a lot on the country you are in. In many European countries, the SMS is practically dead: in Germany or Switzerland it's all WhatsApp these days, with a bit of Telegram or Signal mixed in. Given this, I was surprised to discover how many people are still sending SMS here in Canada. I think it has a lot do with mobile carrier pricing: here in Canada, mobile fees are enormously expensive, but SMS are…

In Portugal all carriers have had free sms between all carriera for a few years now on almost all plans. I believe people still reasonably use it. Mobile data cannot be assumed to be always on as it is too expensive most of the time and never forget that having mobile data on drains battery too fast. If anyone wants to be sure to that someone replies to something in urgent matter better use standard sms/phone calls. I havr no idea in what kind of bubbles people are mostly nowadays. Anyway, almost everyone has whatsup or telgram too and most people also use those as a main way to communicate and mostly to be in chat groups. I'm the weird one using only sms and signal and very little of facebook messenger.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#334

Post by shadesofgrey »

balladeer wrote: post #309
rm999 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google dominated non-SMS chat in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I don't think they realized how insanely valuable that was - they were basically sitting on the future of communication. All they had to do was sit back and let network effects build their monopoly (with some more tech build-out and straightforward marketing in international markets). Instead, they myopically saw Facebook as a threat and started one of the…

In India WhatsApp, now, is not a gold standard of online communication but it is pretty much the only mode of communication largely. I don't about other places, but at least here - people are not going to Google new "Chat" or Hangout anytime soon. Even Facebook chat is slowly losing out to WhatsApp and I don't think Facebook minds it. In fact they saw it coming and bought the app for that record price. The reason I j…

Dont worry, its the Americans who live in a bubble.

I live in one of the wealthiest and advanced countries in the world. Ask a 12 year old girl what SMS is and she will not know. She will know WhatsApp.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#336

Post by jayd16 »

rakoo wrote: post #331
jayd16 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What service is using it at scale these days? I can't really think of a popular user. After a certain point it just becomes a headache. When I was working with ejabberd clusters servicing mobile clients it worked but I've had a lot less pain just using a custom protocol over websockets. My personal experience also seems to be mirrored throughout the industry as all the big players eventually move away from xmpp.

Most ironically, Google is using it for their Cloud Messaging solution ( https://developers.google.com/cloud-messaging/ccs and https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/server#choo... for the replacement) to allow applications to talk with a backend.. The advantages over HTTP are multiple: better battery life, bidirectional communication, asynchronicity. Riot Games is also using it for the messaging part of Le…

You'll notice that the google links mention that the xmpp api is deprecated. I'm not sure what Riot uses these days but the xmpp connection is no longer available to third parties.

That sad truth is that people who actually use it end up dropping it. Its not some conspiracy. It just wasn't cutting it.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#337

Post by Chyzwar »

dingaling wrote: post #74
eloisant wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France all carriers give unlimited free SMS. Is it not the case in other countries?

Not on pay-as-you-go in the UK, where you still pay for every message. 3p each for my plan which doesn't seem much but I easily send over 100 e-mails and IMs every day.

Consider changing your plan. I am not paying SMS for a few years already. (in the UK)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#338

Post by rakoo »

jayd16 wrote: post #336
rakoo wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most ironically, Google is using it for their Cloud Messaging solution ( https://developers.google.com/cloud-messaging/ccs and https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/server#choo... for the replacement) to allow applications to talk with a backend.. The advantages over HTTP are multiple: better battery life, bidirectional communication, asynchronicity. Riot Games is also using it for the messaging part of Le…

You'll notice that the google links mention that the xmpp api is deprecated. I'm not sure what Riot uses these days but the xmpp connection is no longer available to third parties. That sad truth is that people who actually use it end up dropping it. Its not some conspiracy. It just wasn't cutting it.

It's not XMPP that's deprecated, it's the whole CCS (first link) that's being replaced with Firebase (second link). The XMPP api is still present in the replacement.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#339

Post by balladeer »

vijaybritto wrote: post #329
balladeer wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. That's surprising. I am from north India - based in Bangalore - and I fly almost every other month. Are you from a remote/small town or like tier 2-3 city? Freelancing maybe? As for the questions - it just got me curious.

250kms from Bangalore. Road is like 4 hrs journey and I live in HSR. So considering the journey to airport and everything road is cheaper and takes almost the same time. Also flights are cheaper only nowadays. It used to be unreasonable.

Aah.. makes sense. And indeed flights were ridiculously unreasonable even 1.5 yrs ago or so.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#340

Post by mistermann »

dchuk wrote: post #199
mistermann wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how blatantly incompetent Google is when it comes to software, blind and stupid is not hyperbole, the proper thing to do here is absolutely crystal clear, users are begging for it (I know, I've googled trying to find a desktop solution that works and doesn't cost $5/month ffs), and they just keep releasing pieces of crap over and over. It's hard to believe this is real life sometimes.

Are you actually calling out arguably the most successful web software company of all time (primarily through search and adwords) for being incompetent? A company that profits billions a...quarter? Maybe chat just doesn't make them any money so they don't really give a shit and all of these things are pet projects that get shut down on a whim? The key to Google is that their real Users are advertisers. That's it. The…

Yes, yes I am. Because most of their software absolutely sucks.
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