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Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

nytimes.com

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Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#41

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #40
patio11 wrote: post #4

If you ever send money to A and it actually goes to B, and for some reason the bank doesn't fix that the first time you get in touch with them, I recommend getting off the phone and escalating to an on-dead-tree letter: Dear BigBank Legal Department: This is written notice under Regulation E that BigBank has processed the following electronic transaction in error: (Brief recitation of transaction details.) You are re…

> somebody in Cincinnati I love how my old city gets mentioned randomly a lot .. like the first episode of BoJack Horseman with the Penguin.

[deleted]

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#42

Post by Rebelgecko »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #35

The Zelle app has had very poor Android support for quite a while... When I first tried to get the app to receive money it didn't even allow the account registration OR login flow to complete without the app crashing.

It's still iffy. I have to reenter my phone number every time I open the app

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#43

Post by panarky »

There needs to be a very large, very prominent warning on every transaction:

"ONLY SEND MONEY TO PEOPLE YOU KNOW."

"IF YOU SEND MONEY TO A SCAMMER, ZELLE WILL NOT HELP YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK."

Zelle is not PayPal.

There is no dispute resolution service if the seller on Craigslist doesn't deliver and stops responding to your messages.

Don't use Zelle to send money to strangers.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#44

Post by throw7 »

I've had problems with all of these online cash transfer "apps", so much so that I don't trust any of them. Venmo flagged my account and required me to "call them up" to "fix" things (yeah no).

I've used google pay the most, but I've sent money with google pay that never reached the destination bank (the destination bank said it was "google's fault", whatever we canceled the transactions).

I've sent money to an associate's email address with google pay and then a few days later she told me someone had withdrawn $999 dollars from her account associated with google pay. Her bank did get her money back after some days. yikes.

Banks should not be "moving fast" to "catch up". They should be providing a trustable experience. I have zelle available with my bank, but no way am I experimenting until it's been stressed out.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#45

Post by eckmLJE »

panarky wrote: post #43

There needs to be a very large, very prominent warning on every transaction: "ONLY SEND MONEY TO PEOPLE YOU KNOW." "IF YOU SEND MONEY TO A SCAMMER, ZELLE WILL NOT HELP YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK." Zelle is not PayPal. There is no dispute resolution service if the seller on Craigslist doesn't deliver and stops responding to your messages. Don't use Zelle to send money to strangers.

Venmo is the same way. A friend of mine accepted payment for a piece of hardware through Venmo. My friend handed over the hardware in person to the buyer once the payment was "in" my friend's wallet and he had initiated the cash out, but before the money had actually cleared into his bank account.

Once he and the buyer parted ways, the payment was canceled due to a claim of fraud by the card's owner, and my friend's Venmo account was suspended because had used it for commercial purposes and not just sending money between friends.

Apparently, even if you already have the money cleared in your bank account, Venmo has the ability to charge it back once a fraud claim is initiated. Apparently this is very common on the platform.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#47

Post by herpderperator »

throw7 wrote: post #44

I've had problems with all of these online cash transfer "apps", so much so that I don't trust any of them. Venmo flagged my account and required me to "call them up" to "fix" things (yeah no). I've used google pay the most, but I've sent money with google pay that never reached the destination bank (the destination bank said it was "google's fault", whatever we canceled the transactions). I've sent money to an assoc…

If your bank flags and blocks your credit card for suspicious activity which you didn't initiate, are you going to "yeah no" them too, and refuse to call them up?

There is nothing wrong with having to call up a financial institution to verify things that raise alarm bells for them.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#48

Post by djsumdog »

btbuilder wrote: post #26
doesnt_know wrote: post #15

Here in kiwi-land, a bank transfer from one individual or business to another is considered the most basic of banking services and all banks support it. Here are some screenshots from the KiwiBank web interface, (but it's similar for all banks): https://i.imgur.com/ug9VU5t.png https://i.imgur.com/HRsyQoN.png There are no fees related to this unless you start doing international transfers, it's just part of the servic…

I think this has to do with a fundamental difference in how sensitive account number and routing numbers are in the US compared with other international financial systems I have used. In the US, if someone has your account number and routing number you can attempt all sorts of fraud via the eCheck system. People and companies are wary about giving out their account numbers. Providing an account number here is more of…

The account number is literally on the bottom of your checks. It's not a secret and shouldn't be treated as one.

Also in Australia/NZ, transfers are two directional as well. But just like the US, transfers happen in batches and through authorized banks (well until very recently when AU implemented instant transfer). As long as it's within the same country, you can track down fraud and close down those accounts.

ACH is the US is restricted in a very similar way. It's very difficult for a non-bank to submit ACH files unless via a bank. The US could easily have a system just like AU/NZ/much of Europe (and in many EU country, they just add a TAN number, a one time non-reusable token to transfer funds).

I wrote a post about this a while back:

https://penguindreams.org/blog/the-american-banking-system-i...

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#49

Post by dothis9 »

herpderperator wrote: post #47
throw7 wrote: post #44

I've had problems with all of these online cash transfer "apps", so much so that I don't trust any of them. Venmo flagged my account and required me to "call them up" to "fix" things (yeah no). I've used google pay the most, but I've sent money with google pay that never reached the destination bank (the destination bank said it was "google's fault", whatever we canceled the transactions). I've sent money to an assoc…

If your bank flags and blocks your credit card for suspicious activity which you didn't initiate, are you going to "yeah no" them too, and refuse to call them up? There is nothing wrong with having to call up a financial institution to verify things that raise alarm bells for them.

I usually just pull out a different credit card, and then take the card that didn't work out of my wallet when I get home.

Sometimes I might get around to calling my bank (somewhat depends on my perception of how long their customer service is going to take to fix the issue), but it's faster for me to just replace that card with another card from my collection of cards (I've got too many cards to keep them all in my wallet at any given time).

The last card which was incorrectly flagged for suspicious activity probably cost that bank several thousand dollars in foregone interchange fees.

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