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After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

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Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#171

Post by bilbo0s »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #161
bilbo0s wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? I'm genuinely confused here. Are you implying that you are OK with Google-scale intrusive data collection as long as you get a convenient dashboard with it? While it might seem magnanimous of them to allow you to download from their system, (your own data no less), I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that arrangement. The way the T&C of all these companies are written, you have no way of validating the deletion of…

The problem is Apple had an agreement that let's them collect as much data as Google yet they are not transparent like Google on what they actually have right now and enable me to remove like Google. Plus Google let's you even download and have no such option from Apple. I try to keep all my data at Google and no where else when possible but I have both a Pixel and an iPhone and do not know what is at Apple. I do use…

OK... let's walk through this.

How do you KNOW that Google, and all of the people Google has allowed access to your data, have deleted it?

Do you see where I'm going?

You have absolutely no way of knowing whether Google deleted your data or not. You just get an email maybe saying that your data was deleted. But that email is only warranting deletion within the parameters of the original T&C you agreed to.

Now compare that to Netflix or Apple. They have NO WAY AT ALL of knowing what I searched for on my home or work machines. If I'm using Google Chrome, as the vast majority of users are, then Google knows not only what I searched for, but also which web pages I went to. When I went to them. And what I did when I was there. Netflix, Apple and Pandora/Spotify etc have almost no way to determine that level of detail about me.

MAYBE AT&T does, which is why I listed them as a priority concern. But very few companies outside of the ISP's, Google and Facebook would even have access to that information. Not even Microsoft and Apple would have access to that level of detail about you. Let's face it, not many people use Edge or Safari.

Even on your phone, Google will ALWAYS have access to more data about you than Apple does. I was getting lots of ads for health insurance on my desktop. They claimed that if I could run a sub-7 minute mile I could get a break on my insurance. A friend of mine told me it was because I used Youtube on my runs in the morning. So Google knew how fast I could run. So we did an experiment where I slowed down for a week, sure enough, the number changed to 8 minute miles. Apple, Spotify, Netflix etc would not have even known that I was searching for health insurance on my machines. But Google not only knew that, but was smart enough to watch me while I was out running to give me an ad that would seem more attractive to me.

Yeah... I stopped using Youtube.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#172

Post by craftyguy »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #166
craftyguy wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They most definitely tailor ads to your personal data.

Target ads but do not sell personal data and have thought out a nice architecture so your data stays at Google. They use a call back for the ad so a third party site does not get any data. Also why ad blockers work.

I never said they sold your personal data, I know they don't. But they still collect vast amounts of it that they use against you (advertising), and make available to governments if requested/ordered.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#173

Post by jacksmith21006 »

craftyguy wrote: post #172
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Target ads but do not sell personal data and have thought out a nice architecture so your data stays at Google. They use a call back for the ad so a third party site does not get any data. Also why ad blockers work.

I never said they sold your personal data, I know they don't. But they still collect vast amounts of it that they use against you (advertising), and make available to governments if requested/ordered.

I prefer the gov has to go through a legal process versus just giving all your data over to the government.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#174

Post by dannypgh »

DanBC wrote: post #9

> Child advocates have also raised alarms about the ease with which smartphone-equipped children are exposed to inappropriate videos and deceptive advertising. COPPA has unfortunate consequences. My 7 year old child watches youtube. He can't have an account, so he uses my account. Youtube thinks an > 18 year old is watching the videos, and so places ads for gambling and alcohol on the videos he watches. There's no me…

I think you're looking for familylink: https://support.google.com/youtubekids/answer/7124142?hl=en

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#175

Post by mncharity »

oflannabhra wrote: post #24

The spark that triggered the current firestorm Facebook is facing has nothing to do with Facebook’s practices—those have been apparent and obvious since before Facebook is as even a company. The spark was the confluence of divisive political headwinds and an outrage-driven news cycle. I’m thankful that spark has resulted in sustained scrutiny of Facebook, but without a similar environment and controversy, I doubt Goo…

> confluence of divisive political headwinds and an outrage-driven news > I doubt Google will find itself in a hot seat

You're suggesting Hollywood will abandon a decade-plus long effort to beat down the influence of big tech, and increase regulation of the Internet, now, when it's going so well?[1] Or that some integrity of governance, quality of public policy, or competence of journalism, will hold them in check?

> Maybe such a controversy is waiting for Google. I hope so,

Controversies against Google will continue to be nurtured, year after year. And one of them, instead of incremental erosion, may well end up being a similar political-media event.

Whether you think this process is a good thing or not, depends in part on what kind of Internet you would like to have.

[1] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180226/01415539302/mista...

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#176

Post by joeseeder »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #154
simfoo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also do this with Google Maps on Android. Disabled Location History sharing with Google? Sorry, we cannot remember the last search term you entered in Google Maps ON THE SAME DEVICE. This is so infuriating

No saved places, and it also breaks time estimations for journeys

Amazing, make me feel good about abandoning google ecosystem a few years ago

Best part is I don’t miss it at all, grew up before evil google, didn’t get to rely on their evil parts when switched away

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#177

Post by jacksmith21006 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #171
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is Apple had an agreement that let's them collect as much data as Google yet they are not transparent like Google on what they actually have right now and enable me to remove like Google. Plus Google let's you even download and have no such option from Apple. I try to keep all my data at Google and no where else when possible but I have both a Pixel and an iPhone and do not know what is at Apple. I do use…

OK... let's walk through this. How do you KNOW that Google, and all of the people Google has allowed access to your data, have deleted it? Do you see where I'm going? You have absolutely no way of knowing whether Google deleted your data or not. You just get an email maybe saying that your data was deleted. But that email is only warranting deletion within the parameters of the original T&C you agreed to. Now compare…

Google does not allow anyone access to my data and I like things to work in the interest of the company. The last company going to give up your data is Google. They know the value and there business is based on trust. They lost trust and they are screwed while companies like Apple do not have the same on the line and why we see Google invest so much more into security and why Google has found Shellshock, Cloudbleed, Spectre, Heartbleed and meltown among others and Apple and MS did not find a single one.

Another example is Apple handed over all their user data in China over to the government while Google instead left China. Kind of saids it all.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

You never know if any company deleted your data but trust Google far more because as they have more to lose and Apple giving up their users data in China proves my point. Apple gives your data away and my daughter is still buying a iPhone.

Let me give a specific examples of my issue with Apple. I try to keep all my data at Google. They are not going to give it up for dollar like Apple in China and Google has the best security by a huge amount.

We were recently on holiday and several of my kids have iPhones. I permanently share my location on Google maps. But when we are traveling I use iMessages with my iPhone kids. They need to find me when out and about and will share my location in iMessages as easy to do.

But I do not have a way to clearly remove from Apple as I do not want that data at Apple. I do not want my data spread around. Apple is the worse like this. Google offers on their own and we will need the gov to force Apple to do the same.

Hope that helps.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#178

Post by sfotm »

downandout wrote: post #116
sfotm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they offer real value services without which you can't survive a day on the web" This is just not true. There are viable competitors in about every space that Google is in. Use local documents and sync via a different storage provider. Alternate email providers exist. The only place where they have a distinct advantage is search, and even then, DuckDuckGo is usually enough (and if it's not, just pass a !g flag). You…

For the HN crowd, this may be an option. The general public doesn't really care about privacy, and is not going to use DuckDuckGo or any other service whose primary selling point is privacy. The best search engine will win the market, and the best search engine will tend to be the one that can generate the most money to invest in its service. Even if someone comes in and beats Google at some point, they will do it by…

Sure, I agree that switching email providers or cloud storage services solely for the sake of privacy isn't going to be something that the average person will do.

I was just objecting to the sentiment that opening a Google account is a requirement for being productive on the internet.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#179

Post by larkeith »

modeless wrote: post #125
zeta0134 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay actually, I would pay to use most of Google's good services. I expect them to do advertising and they do not (!) need that kind of data on me for their search result advertising to be relevant. They have my search term; that should be enough in isolation. I would pay handsomely for Google Maps, but I have no such option. Again though, that is a service that works just fine without my individual data; they have m…

> actually, I would pay to use most of Google's good services. A lot of people say this. You already can pay for Gmail, Docs, Drive, Calendar, Photos, and YouTube. Are you paying for them?

Does paying for these products disable tracking and provide strong privacy controls?

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#180

Post by modeless »

larkeith wrote: post #179
modeless wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually, I would pay to use most of Google's good services. A lot of people say this. You already can pay for Gmail, Docs, Drive, Calendar, Photos, and YouTube. Are you paying for them?

Does paying for these products disable tracking and provide strong privacy controls?

For G Suite, "Google does not sell your data to third parties, there is no advertising in G Suite, and we never collect or use data from G Suite services for any advertising purposes."

Also "G Suite's compliance with ISO/IEC 27018:2014 affirms our commitment to international privacy and data protection standards. ISO 27018 guidelines include not using your data for advertising, ensuring that your data in G Suite services remains yours, providing you with tools to delete and export your data, protecting your information from third-party requests, and being transparent about where your data is stored."

https://gsuite.google.com/security

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