Live data from Hacker News

The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

work.qz.com

981–990 of 1001 posts

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#981
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $300k, $400k+ a year Amazon, Facebook, Google? Those are hard salaries to get in my experience. I'm reasonably well respected in my field; attending conferences, speaking, leading meetups, and tirelessly researching computer science in my free time. Can't get a job at those 3, but going to try and take the hedge fund route I guess (I'm in NYC).

In my head financial stuff is harder to get into than BigCo's... :) Why do you say you /can't/ get a job at those companies?

When I pass the tech interview I fail leadership, when I pass the leadership I fail tech. Kind of amusing. Amazon and Facebook are still interested in me but I'm not interested in studying algorithms for them again for a while. I like studying algorithms but am more interested in specific algorithms at the moment, not random undergraduate ones. Google has me on the 3 strikes list.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#982

I prefer homework to timed, monitored programming sessions. But the task should never be a big task. When i interviewed for a backend development position, the task was to set up flask with two routes, connect to a dB and retrieve a couple of rows when user visited the routes. It was not hard even though I never worked with flask before, and it wasn't supposed to be hard either. It was a test if I had basic programmi…

That's an entirely reasonable assignment that I would accept doing. Unfortunately, there are definitely way more time consuming projects being handed out regularly.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#983
Its not just devs that get these assignments. I've seen startups use BD folks for interviews to research and structure potential deals as a "homework" assignment. They dangle a fancy job in hopes of generating leads, which they do, and then they never end up filling the position. Candidates put in weeks of work setting up an actual deal for a fictitious job.

I think these tactics are a lazy way to interview. If you truly want to build a great company, you need to spend significant time with someone to understand 1) can they do this job, and 2) are they a fit with the culture, and 3) are they passionate about the mission. There are no shortcuts, yet so many companies try to hack the process.

Everyone is busy and looking for ways to steal time but this seems to be one of the most short-sighted. The best companies don't look at labor as just an input.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to pass judgement on your coding exercise, and it certainly seems fishy with the contract, however... I would point out that on the hiring side, evaluating a submitted project in a way that can differentiate between good and great candidates, and that the reviewers can understand well enough to get the signal they need, is very difficult. Because of this, I know several times we have asked candidates to…

That is fine, just be upfront about it. Still require a contract for it is reeking of trying to get work for "free". If you have it running in production, and use it because you understand it thoroughly, it shouldn't matter what the candidate comes up with. Any new insight he might bring you can always incorporate with your own code. In any case none of the code is expected to be used in production, and if it turns o…

Yep I agree.

Just a minor bit of friendly feedback on your comment, I hope you don't mind...

You said "Any new insight he might bring". To refer to a hypothetical developer as "he" contributes to the stereotype of developers being male, and that can make those who don't conform to that feel less welcome in the community.

I'm sure this wasn't a conscious decision, and I know it's something I slip up with frequently, but I'm trying not to do it, and I think writing that is more inclusive is more persuasive to more people and generally better.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#985
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contract before hire is a practice that is slowly growing, and not fast enough. I find test paid projects are the best interview technique for detail oriented work, whether it's software or otherwise. It's far better to select a task that is simple enough for the potential candidate to be a pinball through the code base or problem domain, ideally to solve a small problem that will be directly transferrable into the p…

I, for one, hope it doesn't really grow. There's a lot of abuse in the "contract-to-hire" space, where the company tends to dangle that carrot of getting the job at the end of the contract period to get the applicant to work lots of extra hours at lower pay, only to be told at the end, "nope".

Employees don't deserve poor employers either.

I wouldn't condone a practice like you've described. It's far better to engage a potential candidate at normal rates for a short period to see if it's a mutual fit.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#986
post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that you might both be talking about different sectors of tech, and different countries? The EU / UK / US / etc. tech markets vary wildly in these things.

Of course he could be talking about Europe but there are very few European "tech" companies. Tech is a horrible descriptor of course, he could be talking about 1000 different things. OP seems to be referring specifically to tech startups with dubious financial situations but then goes on to say that all tech companies are bad to work for

> there are very few European "tech" companies.

I very heavily disagree.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my current job (where i've interviewed candidates) we give out a take home assignment, but we explicitly enforce a 2 hour time limit to do it. We felt this was reasonable because combined with an onsite interview and a phone screen, the total amount of time a candidate would spend interviewing for a position is about 8 hours (a typical workday). I'm not against take home assignments per se - but 3 day assignments…

I think this is the best approach. You get the opportunity to do exactly what the job expects, without the pressure of having to manage communication with someone breathing down your neck. A savvy employer can extrapolate what you're able to produce over 2 hours to whatever project they'd have you work on.

We've had pretty good luck with it thus far. Generally, it is a good way to chop off the long tail of "not good enough" and bring the better ones onsite.

As you said, we calibrated our general expectation to what we think is reasonable in 2 hours - so we expect "good enough" code, but not perfect code.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#989
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I was being conservative. Point being that $15/hr in the US is just basically a complete screw-job.

Point being that $15/h oversea is a complete screw job as well.

Frankly you have no idea about wages in the world outside of your country. $15/h is ok for dev in my country, maybe not the most experienced one but still ok. And WE are offshoring a lot of the programming jobs to countries with much worse pay.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#990
post #78

I spent days almost 10 hours, completing a massive interview project for one company. I submitted a fully working solution, had unit test, was pixel perfect, and they didn't even give me an interview. Not only that they gave me a vague reason, only after pressing for feedback. Left a very bad taste in my mouth, don't think I'll be doing code assignments again, what a waste of time.

Would you still do it if you were paid for your time? Say $500 for this 10 hour project.

That's a tough one... I guess it would make it better, but I'm not sure about how the taxes and relationship with the company would play out...
Post reply on HN