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After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

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Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#141

Post by bowlich »

Zhenya wrote: post #28
Sir_Substance wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their tools are 10x better than anything else for many cases, so you're simply doing yourself a disservice to not use them. I think that at this point that's basically only true for mapping, and they are losing ground on that, slowly. You've got stockholm syndrome.

I'll bite. What's actually better than: * Gmail * Search * Docs And all of the Integration that works cross platform for all of those.

We use docs for work. I hate it. I can never find where a document is hiding (is it in drive, docs, associated with which account?). I much prefer a local file structure that I can navigate from the command line.

Some tools break on Firefox at times. There doesn't appear to be any offline mode for me to store and work on my documents locally when I am on the road and don't have a reliable internet connection.

Gmail. I pull into thunderbird via imap. It's just another back-end from my perspective.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#142

Post by notacoward »

Mononokay wrote: post #92
notacoward wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One counterexample doesn't prove anything, and Doctorow is barely even a relevant example. It's journalists who feel most threatened by Facebook, as they see their subscriber base - and thus their own income opportunities - dwindling. Pseudo-journalist commentators even more so. Once they might have looked to Facebook as a possible ally, a channel through which they could ply their profession, but increasingly (to an…

He said "All"

Yes, I said "all" but it was clearly hyperbole. Most people would interpret "journalists who are all..." the same way as "all journalists who are..." or treat "all" as an intensifier rather than a qualifier. "He was all up in my face" doesn't mean he put his entire body in my face. But hey, if you want to be super-literal for the sake of being contrary I guess that's your problem. The fact remains that what's true for Boing Boing is not necessarily true for CNN, and that there's adequate reason to believe self-interest affects CNN's coverage here.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#143

Post by bilbo0s »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #129

Might not be a popular view but my biggest issue is Apple and transparency on what they collect. Google has a fantastic dashboard with everything and ability to remove or even download. Apple privacy agreement allows them to collect a ton of private data but that is it. You agree and no idea what they are doing with your data. Read the agreement. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ Legal - Privacy Policy - App…

???

I'm genuinely confused here. Are you implying that you are OK with Google-scale intrusive data collection as long as you get a convenient dashboard with it?

While it might seem magnanimous of them to allow you to download from their system, (your own data no less), I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that arrangement. The way the T&C of all these companies are written, you have no way of validating the deletion of your data in a comprehensive fashion, there are no provisions for you to look under the hood, and there are explicit reservations outlined with respect to government related obligations.

I'm not comfortable with any of these companies, but knowing that Google has all of my searches, (desktop AND mobile), for the past 10 or 15 years, youtube view history, etc etc etc worries me a bit more than the fact that Apple knows what apps I've downloaded. Personally, I would rate them as follows:

HIGH PRIORITY CONCERNS: Google and Facebook

PRIORITY CONCERNS: AT&T Amazon

SECONDARY CONCERNS: Netflix Apple Pandora etc

To put it in layman's terms:

Apple knows what apps I've downloaded. AT&T knows where I've been. But Google and Facebook know all of that PLUS what porn I like, what I REALLY think of my boss, what I've been posting "anonymously" to different web forums, and they have a pretty good idea which of my S/O's friends I think are hotter than her.

Which one do you think I'm more worried about?

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#144

Post by craftyguy »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #103
craftyguy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their product is not premised on my genuine identity Their product to you may not be, but their primary revenue stream sure is based on the premise of knowing your genuine identity (including habits.)

Not really. Google does search ads based on what you are searching at that time. Plus Google does ads with a call back so no data leaves Google. The byproduct is ad blockers work by blocking the call back.

They most definitely tailor ads to your personal data.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#145

Post by BeetleB »

dawhizkid wrote: post #34

If you frame the question as "how much value do I get from X in exchange for my data?" I think the answer is clear that Google > Facebook. G Search, Gmail, Analytics, Docs, YT (original home of Khan Academy) etc. all contribute to my learning and productivity...with FB the total opposite.

That's true for you, but is it true for most people?

I know many who get a lot more value out of staying in touch with friends/family than they do with Google products.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#146

Post by Bombthecat »

freehunter wrote: post #46
justinzollars wrote: post #35

Concerned that google has so much info ( https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity ) I visited https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols to turn off Web & App Activity, but left Voice & Audio Activity on. This breaks my google home. I do not want Google to save 20 years of search history so I can use a stupid google home. For the first time I'm considering Apple's device. This is a dark pattern Google

This has been my stance for about five years now. I don’t want to give all this info to companies I don’t trust. Apple devices might cost more, but Apple only makes money from you when you give them money. Google and Facebook make money when you give them money and then make money when you give them information too. There’s a perverse incentive, they want you to use it more and give them more information because they…

I'm pretty sure that one day Apple will also use / sell your data.

Why? Because it makes them even more money...

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#148

Post by throw2016 »

product50 wrote: post #81
justinzollars wrote: post #35

Concerned that google has so much info ( https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity ) I visited https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols to turn off Web & App Activity, but left Voice & Audio Activity on. This breaks my google home. I do not want Google to save 20 years of search history so I can use a stupid google home. For the first time I'm considering Apple's device. This is a dark pattern Google

Yeah - you want to make use of Google services (search, maps, youtube, Photos etc.) for free and don't want to give anything in return. #entitlement Also, most likely you turning off tracking will impact your Google experience. Google is different than Facebook in that they offer real value services without which you can't survive a day on the web. Just count how many times you rely on a Google service in a day. The…

Untrue, people are paying serious money for their Android phones. OEMs too pay Google. So customers are not 'demanding' anything for free.

But that doesn't stop Google's insatiable need for personal data and stalking people. Android is designed to leak like a sieve.

And this is yet another example for those who continue to make the false argument that if customers paid surveillance would go away. On the contrary companies will then make money from both sources.

This 'free' is not demanded by anybody but is the business model of some startups to gain market share. The fact that there are no regulations means they can operate without any ethical constraints.

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#149

Post by Bombthecat »

rapnie wrote: post #135
downandout wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the HN crowd, this may be an option. The general public doesn't really care about privacy, and is not going to use DuckDuckGo or any other service whose primary selling point is privacy. The best search engine will win the market, and the best search engine will tend to be the one that can generate the most money to invest in its service. Even if someone comes in and beats Google at some point, they will do it by…

I got a number of people to switch to DuckDuckGo by sending DDG query url's to them: "Hey, there is a ton of info on this subject!" (sends DDG query)

DDG uses Google.

If they grow too big Google will just switch them off..

Re: After Facebook scrutiny, is Google next?

#150

Post by randomsearch »

rapnie wrote: post #133
product50 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well - there are competitors but they aren't nearly as good. Usage and popularity of these alternate products tell a story.

Unfamiliarity also goes a long way. I recently switched to DuckDuckGo. In the beginning I would compare my search queries with results from Google.. found there wasn't all that much difference.

+1 for DDG. I’ve been experimenting with it as default in Safari and it’s so similar I often find myself wondering “when did google change their layout?”
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