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Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

bellingcat.com

11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#11
post #8

"sarin precursor" = isopropanol I use this very dangerous sarin precursor everyday as a hand sanitizer.

And if you all of a sudden ordered "96 tons" of it out of the blue? I think the issue being brought to light is contrast to normal export/import of it to this region?

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#12

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

I agree with you in principle (that it's likely this is for use as rubbing alcohol, not as an industrial precursor), but in theory, there is still something going on here. Number one, they are able to track the volume and destinations of the trade. It would be weird to see a large fluctuation in exports-- why would Syrian consumers suddenly begin demanding or abandoning their use of rubbing alcohol? Demand is most li…

[deleted]

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#14

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

This was a topic in the Belgian news a couple of days ago. The issue is not as much whether the isopropanol will be used for chemical warfare, nor if it should be regarded dangerous or if it is on a list with restricted substances, but more that these companies would/should have known that exporting it to Syria is a big risk given the current context. It was more of a moral question rather than a 'scientific' one.

Tons of isopropanol were destroyed in Syria by UN workers when trying to destroy all chemical weapons and precursors.*

*https://www.armscontrol.org/files/Panel2.1_Anelli_TuckerConf...

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#15

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

Also who needs a gazillion liters of isopropanol when a kilogram of sarin (which takes at most ~10L of isopropanol to make) is all you need to kill... well, everybody you would want to kill?

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#16
post #3

Putting isopropanol in the export control list is BS. That’s a precursor to everything - you might as well say: “we don’t like you so you’re not allowed to have industry”

Organic synthesis is like hacking, someone skilled and determined to get somewhere will get there and there really isn't anything you can do to stop it.

Regulating "precursors" to chemicals is probably a bad idea in general.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#17

I want to be clear that I don’t know if chemical weapons are being used in Syria, although the evidence for the use of Chlorine in barrel bombs is strong. I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t seen good evidence of organophosphate poisonings, but I’m just some guy so who knows. What I do know for sure however, is that this blog is utter bunk. The Belgian customs found that without having requested the appropriate exp…

This was a topic in the Belgian news a couple of days ago. The issue is not as much whether the isopropanol will be used for chemical warfare, nor if it should be regarded dangerous or if it is on a list with restricted substances, but more that these companies would/should have known that exporting it to Syria is a big risk given the current context. It was more of a moral question rather than a 'scientific' one. To…

Tons of isopropanol's brother, ethanol, are destroyed worldwide simply trying to cope with these warmongering propagandists.

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#18
post #11
post #8

"sarin precursor" = isopropanol I use this very dangerous sarin precursor everyday as a hand sanitizer.

And if you all of a sudden ordered "96 tons" of it out of the blue? I think the issue being brought to light is contrast to normal export/import of it to this region?

96 tons is nothing.

http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=isopropyl&d=ComTrade&f=_l1Cod...

According to the United Nations, Syria imported 1,916,504 kilograms of "Propyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol" in 2010, 1,705,420 kilograms in 2009, 926,139 kilograms in 2008, and so on...

Re: Tracking the Illegal Shipment of Sarin Precursor from Belgium to Syria

#20
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this is why we should never trust news/current-affairs site that disables its comments section

There's more than enough forums to debunk weird/bad articles, starting with Twitter. Comments section tend to be filled with anonymous trolls fulls of conspiracy theories, I would prefer to see a rebunk from someone that has some kind of reputation within the field.

And sometimes a simple, straight-forward comment is all it takes to stop the propaganda effort dead in its tracks (hence why many such articles have the comment section mysteriously disabled, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/18/syria-white-he... ). Leaving it to readers to go out and actively vet the information on some other 'forum' just allows the propaganda to spread further than it otherwise would.
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