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No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

gregsavage.com.au

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Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#61

Post by CaptainZapp »

I agree in general. Being late, in a Western cultural context is just damn rude.

He had me until the dentist story. I don't think that a dentist actually plans to let patients wait, but it does happen. A dentist (mine at least) usually plans in contingency for emergencies, but it may still happen that he overshoots.

Question: Would you rather have your dentist hand out his cell phone # after treating you on a Friday and their may be some complexities on the weekend for the price of waiting the occasional 20 minutes or a guaranteed punctual dentist who lets you wait for three weeks while you agonize in pain?

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#62

Post by elbenshira »

kranner wrote: post #21
elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

Being Indian, I have to take a little offense at the generalization. It isn't all of us. I'm never casually late for an appointment, and am always annoyed if the other party is, beyond the reasonable 10 minutes. And this is not because of any incipient effect of Western culture. Please stop with the generalizing about pan-cultural differences in the perceived value of productivity, community, etc. Neither does an ane…

I didn't mean to offend. I've worked with Indians who were punctual. In fact, I don't recall ever working with one who was not. I think parties are bit different, though.

My point was to compare cultures, not to put down one or the other.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#63

Post by catshirt »

elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

Am I the only person who did not consider this a disfavorable comparison? If anything, I would suggest that Western culture is the one suffering. It is a consequence of consistent immediacy and impatience.

For reasons I probably couldn't convey to the author of this article- learning to accept time's transience can greatly improve quality of life. Or less romantically: dude... chill out... everything will be ok.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#64

Post by catshirt »

kranner wrote: post #49
vishaldpatel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm.. being Indian, I actually thought that he was praising us, rather than trying to offend.

I didn't see the praise. What I really objected to was the stereotyping. I know I'm not the only Indian who cares about punctuality.

They never suggested that deprioritizing punctuality was a flaw of character.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#65

Post by elbenshira »

patio11 wrote: post #27
elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

Don't compare "East Asians" disfavorably to American punctuality within earshot of a Japanese salaryman. The line beginning with "other cultures" is untestable horsepuckey reminiscent of the absolute worst tripe in American multicultural studies. And I have a degree in that. It survives only because it flatters the preconceptions of an Ameican subculture in academia who prefers to have a ready critique of Western cul…

You are right that it's easy to misuse "other cultures," but my comment comes from my experiences of living in different countries.

I am not saying that one way of thought is better than the other. I just wanted people to understand that their perception concerning punctuality is perhaps mostly based on their cultural upbringing, not on some universal human truth.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#66

Post by demallien »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #61

I agree in general. Being late, in a Western cultural context is just damn rude. He had me until the dentist story. I don't think that a dentist actually plans to let patients wait, but it does happen. A dentist (mine at least) usually plans in contingency for emergencies, but it may still happen that he overshoots. Question: Would you rather have your dentist hand out his cell phone # after treating you on a Friday…

It's a false dichotomy - the solution to being able to handle emergencies quickly is the same as the solution to being able to see patients on time - have some slack in your schedule. Of course, that may mean that you need to charge more for your service, but I know plenty of people that would happily pay a surcharge of 20% or so on their doctor/dentist visits if it meant that they wouldn't have to be sitting around in a waiting room for an hour.

The curious thing about it is that it would only need to be about 20% to get everyone clear, but instead of that, nearly every patient ends up needing to wait for an hour, because there is always an emergency that needs addressing each day. I wonder why we don't see doctor's surgeries or dentists doing this. Anyone have an idea?

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#67

Post by scelerat »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #61

I agree in general. Being late, in a Western cultural context is just damn rude. He had me until the dentist story. I don't think that a dentist actually plans to let patients wait, but it does happen. A dentist (mine at least) usually plans in contingency for emergencies, but it may still happen that he overshoots. Question: Would you rather have your dentist hand out his cell phone # after treating you on a Friday…

I appreciate it when people whom I am waiting for let me know that there will be a delay and that I have not been completely forgotten. Dentists, restaurant servers, girlfriends contemplating marriage proposals, etc.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#68

Post by scelerat »

elbenshira wrote: post #7

Interestingly, this is mostly an American (and a also a Western) problem. In most of the world (South America, Middle East, Africa, East Asia, etc), "on time" ranges anywhere between 30 minutes to 3 hours later. We grade our personal productivity level much more than other cultures. Other cultures value other things such as community and relationships at a higher level than we do. A story: I was invited to an Indian…

Then call me hopelessly, curmudgeonly Western. I like people who say what they mean, including when they say they'll be somewhere at a certain time(+).

Context is everything. Parties, many types of social situations are different. But if someone plans e.g. a meeting and it's important for everyone to be there (otherwise, why are they invited?) then you'd better (1) be on time or (2) suggest an alternate time when you know you can make it. If there's some question, there's no shame in saying so. Do that so that the other people can make their plans. If you can't make plans and stick to them, WTF are you doing?

(+) Mobile phones have made everybody commitment-shy losers.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#69

Post by kemayo »

drusenko wrote: post #53

It's helpful to define what "being late" means. My rule of thumb is 0-5 minutes late is "on time", 5-10 minutes late is "OK but not great", 10-15 minutes late is "somewhat rude" and 15+ minutes late is "very rude". One thing that annoys me to no end: people who are very early. If I plan my schedule carefully around you being there at 2pm (or later) and you show up 20 minutes early, you are going to sit around for 20…

I tend to think that part of the etiquette for being early is that you make yourself scarce until just before the scheduled time. Ideally, you also make your presence knowable by the person you're meeting with, in case it actually would be convenient for them to see you early.

Re: No, you are not "running late", you are rude & selfish

#70

Post by tjmc »

This post is “very Sydney” as they say there. I lived there for 5 years and deliberate lateness was very much a part of the culture – a social signal that your time was more important than someone else’s.

I fondly remember a quarterly kickoff meeting where my boss ripped one of the more pretentious reps a new one as she sidled in 30 minutes late. It didn’t happen again.

Having said that - finding parking, catching public transport (oh God those trains – shudder) and just getting around Sydney in general is a bitch.

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