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Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

shapertools.com

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Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#51

Post by flyingcircus3 »

gh02t wrote: post #46
TheRealPomax wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they're also operating in the "maker space", where ten people all pitch in $250 and buy a tool for everyone else to use. That $2400 buys you a tool that everyone, including kids, can use, as opposed to a real CnC machine that requires someone to become an expert operator needing to babysit anyone else who has an idea that requires CnC work. This tool has zero appeal to commercial operators. But it's _INCRED…

I dunno that this is really any easier to use than a Shapeoko, which is $1900 for the largest version (33" x 33" x 3" working area) with router included. The software for Shapeoko is pretty idiot proof, it can do a 2D carve from an SVG file with no more difficulty than the Origin, while you also have the ability to do 2.5 and 3D operations, which I don't think the Origin can do very well if at all. There's some cases…

Idiotproof is in the eye of the beholder. Shapeoko is simple for people already exposed to far more complex tools, like machining centers, knee Mills, etc.

But for people who have never understood any of those tools on a low level, it remains indistinguishable from magic.

Thus, this tool is far more accessible to a complete novice, in terms of what they are comfortable exploring.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#53

Post by debatem1 »

Mizza wrote: post #47

I've been looking at products in this space myself lately, and stumbled upon the Maslow, which has similar, though not identical functionality, but is a DIY product an order of magnitude cheap than this (though obviously far less polished and producty): http://www.maslowcnc.com/

I really want to like the Maslow, but I admit I'm losing patience with it. After a multi-month waiting period to get it I found that they hadn't shipped me all the parts. After a chat with their co-founder (who was very nice) I assumed all was taken care of, but it's been something like two weeks since then and still no parts. In the time it's taken just to get the Maslow kit I could easily have designed and built my own.

Very disappointing. Like I say, I want to like and support what seems to be a really nice company. I just don't have a product yet.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#54

Post by Hasz »

avanderhoorn wrote: post #48

My biggest problem is not being able to get sharp corners. Thats not a problem with Shaper Origin per se, but more with CNC based routers (note the chess board on their homepage, it doesn't have squares with 90 deg corners). If something like Shaper Origin supported being able to do this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Sharp internal corners are hard period. CNC milling machines have the same issue -- the usual way to to just use a smaller end mill.

You either need some type of punch or an (actual) shaper.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#55

Post by diggernet »

Hasz wrote: post #54
avanderhoorn wrote: post #48

My biggest problem is not being able to get sharp corners. Thats not a problem with Shaper Origin per se, but more with CNC based routers (note the chess board on their homepage, it doesn't have squares with 90 deg corners). If something like Shaper Origin supported being able to do this, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Sharp internal corners are hard period. CNC milling machines have the same issue -- the usual way to to just use a smaller end mill. You either need some type of punch or an (actual) shaper.

That's what square hole drill bits are for.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#56

Post by gh02t »

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #51
gh02t wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno that this is really any easier to use than a Shapeoko, which is $1900 for the largest version (33" x 33" x 3" working area) with router included. The software for Shapeoko is pretty idiot proof, it can do a 2D carve from an SVG file with no more difficulty than the Origin, while you also have the ability to do 2.5 and 3D operations, which I don't think the Origin can do very well if at all. There's some cases…

Idiotproof is in the eye of the beholder. Shapeoko is simple for people already exposed to far more complex tools, like machining centers, knee Mills, etc. But for people who have never understood any of those tools on a low level, it remains indistinguishable from magic. Thus, this tool is far more accessible to a complete novice, in terms of what they are comfortable exploring.

I'd say the Shapeoko is actually a bit easier to use than a 3D printer (a makerspace staple)- you don't have to do any of the more complicated CNC/CAM things like creating toolpaths or calculating feedrates if you just want to carve an SVG, the software does it all automatically. The machines are a bit more dangerous so you need to take more safety precautions, but the overall process is less fiddly than a 3D printer or more advanced CNC jobs (though the Shapeoko can also do that).

I mean I get it, the Shaper is neat and I do see the appeal. I just can't help but thinking the price is too high for what you're getting considering that the alternatives are pretty good too, as well as far more capable for a lot of uses. If they had hit the $1500 mark I'd probably be considering one myself but man $2400 is pretty steep for a router with autopilot.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#57

Post by gtvwill »

Similar packaging and probably marketing to fein gear.... Fancy case and some pretty looking tools but tbh I don't see that piece of equipment ever making it into the workshop and it barely looks like it would survive a week on-site too. 2500 dollary doos is pretty damned expensive for what looks to be a damned fragile bit of gear with very little use.

Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it grabs and pulls and goes off direction. Having a little map of where your "supposed to go" isn't going to prevent this.. So I see this thing doing nothing to make your job's/cuts more accurate. Yes it maps it for you...but so does a projector and a pencil and then your not limited to the size or shape of the router...just the skill of the operator.

If it was priced say...450 or maaaaaaaaaaaaybe 750 aud? It would possibly get a look in? I get a makita for like 200 bucks that will take a thrashing on site and a dewalt for like 600 if you want a few extra ponies under the bonnet. But christ...2500 dollary doos. I can buy half a chippies work truck for that! In the famed words of the castle "tell em' he's dreamin!"

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#58

Post by linsomniac »

gtvwill wrote: post #57

Similar packaging and probably marketing to fein gear.... Fancy case and some pretty looking tools but tbh I don't see that piece of equipment ever making it into the workshop and it barely looks like it would survive a week on-site too. 2500 dollary doos is pretty damned expensive for what looks to be a damned fragile bit of gear with very little use. Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it…

I'm not sure you understand what this is. It's not a router, it's a handheld 4'x8' CNC. If Makita has a 4x8 CNC for 200 bucks, it's news to me. :-)

It doesn't have "a little map of where you're supposed to go", it has a display showing where it is going to go. Now, I don't drive my router every day (a Bosch, FYI), so I'll admit I'm not a skilled operator. But my ability to follow a pencil line with a router is iffy at best.

You are right that the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is it grabbing and going off path. That isn't so much a problem with a CNC. I don't know how the Shaper, being hand-held rather than a mounted chassis, prevents kicking out like that. I don't know if it stops cutting when you move the body, or is fast enough to move the tool when you are repositioning the body and the tool grabs.

The Shaper's goal is that an unskilled operator can do accurate and repeatable cuts.

That said, I haven't used the Shaper. I've watched some folks over the years use them on YouTube, and I've half wished I'd bought the older model when they had it for pre-order for $1,500.

But the downside of these tools is that you can't just whip them out and start making chips, you've got to have CAD and CAM experience and generate the gcode. I've done a little with 3D printers, and SketchUp, and custom gcode. But I'm far from being able to bang out a set of shapes for a one-off project. I'd have to be making a few or more of something before I even considered it.

The Shaper looks insanely cool, and I wish our Maker Space had one, but I also don't have an immediate need for one either. I CAN tell you that I've recently been wishing our 4x8 CNC took up a lot less floor space, it's bigger than either of our workbenches but can't be used as a work surface (policy decision).

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#59

Post by [deleted] »

gtvwill wrote: post #57

Similar packaging and probably marketing to fein gear.... Fancy case and some pretty looking tools but tbh I don't see that piece of equipment ever making it into the workshop and it barely looks like it would survive a week on-site too. 2500 dollary doos is pretty damned expensive for what looks to be a damned fragile bit of gear with very little use. Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it…

[deleted]

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#60

Post by janekm »

linsomniac wrote: post #58
gtvwill wrote: post #57

Similar packaging and probably marketing to fein gear.... Fancy case and some pretty looking tools but tbh I don't see that piece of equipment ever making it into the workshop and it barely looks like it would survive a week on-site too. 2500 dollary doos is pretty damned expensive for what looks to be a damned fragile bit of gear with very little use. Like the biggest problem to making cuts with a router is that it…

I'm not sure you understand what this is. It's not a router, it's a handheld 4'x8' CNC. If Makita has a 4x8 CNC for 200 bucks, it's news to me. :-) It doesn't have "a little map of where you're supposed to go", it has a display showing where it is going to go . Now, I don't drive my router every day (a Bosch, FYI), so I'll admit I'm not a skilled operator. But my ability to follow a pencil line with a router is iffy…

Actually it's a little of both. You do have to guide it by hand according to the map it shows, however it will correct small deviations from the path allowing relatively accurate cuts.

It has two huge downsides over a regular router: you have to place marker tape (quite expensive) all over the workpiece, and it will stop working once the marker tape is cut. Also, you have to keep guiding it throughout the process so you don't get the time benefit (multitasking) of a regular CNC router.

I don't think it's a really good choice for a makerspace actually compared to a regular router table, unless there is a serious lack of space.

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