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No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

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Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#131

Post by Dylan16807 »

Stratoscope wrote: post #86
wlesieutre wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they should apply caps or throttling during hours when capacity is a concern and let me download 100 GB of games from Steam between 4 and 7 AM when the Netflix watchers have gone to bed.

That's a bit like how T-Mobile does it. You get 50GB/month that is always at full speed, and then after that you get deprioritized if you're on a busy tower. So it doesn't depend on time of day, but how many other customers are sharing your tower. https://www.t-mobile.com/customer/mydatausage.html > Data prioritization will only be noticeable when you access a congested tower and have used over 50GB of data in a part…

That's tantalizingly close, but the goal is a plan that lets you use low-priority downloads to avoid using up your full-speed data allowance.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#132

Post by Dylan16807 »

rajeevk wrote: post #34

> IoT will rarely require speeds more than 100's of megabits. Most actually is kilobits. This reminds me this famous quote by Bill Gates: "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody"

There are plenty of uses for high speeds, but IoT uses? Can you name three kinds of IoT device that require broadband?

Cameras sometimes do. I can't think of a second one.

The main focus of IoT is tiny embedded devices. The biggest use is very likely to always be data-light.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#133

Post by topmonk »

nickysielicki wrote: post #85
staplers wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you last get 100Mbit+ speeds with 4G? In a real world scenario, I would max out my data cap in 5 minutes.. Telcos will never give up their guaranteed profits by throttling speeds even with unlimited speed/capacity.

What are you suggesting? If it's that there's some market-wide conspiracy to provide worse service for the sake of long-term profits, there's zero evidence to back that. Cell phone plans have gotten significantly better in the past decades, and most people are able to pay less and get a better level of service. Things have gotten better and cheaper, because there is competition, and there is always going to be market…

I had a thought that the left tries to divvy up what value already exists, and the right tries to create an environment where new value can be created.

In order for the left to justify their agenda, they try to make it seem that it's pointless to try to create new value because of things like cartels, monopolies, etc. They then present the conclusion that the only way for a person to improve their financial position is to take from others.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#134

Post by kalleboo »

gascan wrote: post #88
LyalinDotCom wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am ashamed of my country (America) that we as a nation, federally speaking, don't provide the funding needed to empower everyone in rural areas with high speed internet as a right. The Internet powers so many important things today and if we're talking about "thousands of dollars per household" it is totally doable.

Google suggests perhaps ~10 million rural houses in the US lack access to high speed internet. It's a nice thought, but where in the budget do you propose we find several tens of billions of dollars?

Rural electrification and rural POTS was once done, what makes rural WISPS that much more expensive?

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#135

Post by kalleboo »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #108
kuschku wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the 2G, 3G and 4G frequency auctions in Germany the prices went extremely high. As result carriers charge massive prices for data, and there’s few carriers in the market.

Hmmm, that's an interesting problem I hadn't thought of with the auctions. People are going to pay for data pretty much regardless of what it costs (within reason), so it's economical to buy part of the spectrum assuming you can pass on the high price to consumers. Typically you think of competition benefiting consumers, but that's obviously not true in this case.

For the original UMTS 2100 auction in Sweden, instead of having an auction, the regulator gave away the spectrum for free to the bidder who could show a plan for the best coverage in the shortest rollout time in a "beauty contest". This left the operators with more money to build the actual networks in a sparse country with a low population. Of course everyone totally failed to achieve the plans they submitted, and one carrier that one dropped out completely (Orange) because they thought a buildout would still be too expensive. But Sweden still ended up with some of the best mobile networks (speed/coverage) in Europe at the time.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#136

Post by Rjevski »

CountSessine wrote: post #116
roenxi wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim just seems ... unlikely and counter to economics. Prices dropping isn't about business owners deciding they feel nice, it is about the fact that consumers reward cheap producers. If the producers refuse to drop prices when thy can, then the first person to break into the market doing something different will get crazy profits. I would liken the situation to 2007 in Australia. Sending instant messages was b…

If the producers refuse to drop prices when thy can, then the first person to break into the market doing something different will get crazy profits Market entry is difficult because it's gated by spectrum availability. It's hard for new competitors to offer wireless services. The market for wireless services in most countries is very cozy - it's usually one or two incumbent carriers that are about the same size, own…

My dream startup is a next generation telco (without the usual data cap bullshit) but I have yet to crack the spectrum problem. Spectrum is auctioned off by the government and it's hard to compete with the existing players; we're talking amounts close to billions here, and that kind of money is not easy to come by, even from VCs.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#137

Post by Rjevski »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64
staplers wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you last get 100Mbit+ speeds with 4G? In a real world scenario, I would max out my data cap in 5 minutes.. Telcos will never give up their guaranteed profits by throttling speeds even with unlimited speed/capacity.

> I would max out my data cap in 5 minutes Counterargument: there are fundamental reasons for data caps. To provide service at a high speed to lots of people at a reasonable price, edge-case data users must be throttled. Increasing capacity reduces the number of users who must be throttled.

This can be solved by selling plans by speed instead of data caps; ie, you pay for a guaranteed speed (like 1Mbps) and can use it as much as you want. The more speed you buy the more expensive it gets, with the full LTE speed being crazy expensive as you'd essentially be buying out the entire tower in that case (but then again, who needs 150Mbps+? I'd be happy with a stable 10Mbps to be honest, for mobile there is rarely a need for more).

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#138

Post by Rjevski »

taeric wrote: post #93
jdietrich wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Especially since you are setting up a constant storm of users trying to reconnect. The network isn't that dumb. The technical details are far beyond the scope of a HN comment, but the network can gracefully deny service to users. Think about what happens if you run out of data allowance or prepaid credit - your phone doesn't frantically spam the network, it just asks for service and is politely told to try again lat…

Right, that was why I was asking if someone had a good link to read on. :) And, honestly, from the way I've seen phones behave on older wifi networks, I would be surprised if some aren't actually spamming the network. Unnecessarily fast. Worse, I would hope the network has some protection built in for the bad actors that do.

> the network has some protection built in for the bad actors that do.

They don't. It's extremely easy to DoS an off-the-shelf (Ericsson, etc) mobile network if you know what to do. All it takes is one packet per minute or so. ;)

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#139

Post by Rjevski »

jburgess777 wrote: post #123
scarface74 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but what happens when everyone at a stadium tries to get on the same tower? But the fault doesn't completely lie with the telcos. Getting permission to build a tower can take years.

Wembley stadium in the UK is used as technology showcase for one of our mobile providers: https://wembley.ee.co.uk/ For more dynamic situations (think Glastonbury music festival) the telcos have been deploying mobile cell towers from the back of trucks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_cell_sites These don't just get used for pop concerts in stadiums but also for disaster response: http://about.att.com/inside_con…

> Wembley stadium in the UK is used as technology showcase for one of our mobile providers

Except they're more interested in pitching their bullshit iBeacon-based "SmartGuide" tracking technology or light show than network access. This is one of the major problems I see with mobile telcos; they seem to get sidetracked on everything but the mobile network which should be their top priority.

No, I don't give a shit about kids programming the light shows or iBeacons, I need fast, rock-solid network access; leave the rest to other companies that have the resources and focus do it better.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#140

Post by charlotte112 »

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