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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#941

Post by conanbatt »

speby wrote: post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

I much rather have homework tests than intensive, arbitrary and stress producing full day interviews.

If you are going to devote 40~50 hours a week for a company thats going to pay you 6 figures and you are not willing to work a day or two, you have your priorities crooked.

And yes, just having a resume is not enough to figure out the good from the bad ones. If we knew that perfectly , there would not be any need for any interviews of any kind.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#942

Post by stuaxo »

I refuse outright to do this kind of thing... mostly, it's because I fail badly ! - I do fine in real jobs, but when it comes to tests and homework, I tend to not get the job. Also... I could be applying for other jobs in that time or doing.. you know, anything else - lying in bed doing nothing for instance.

Seriously, this trend can go fuck itself... the last time an recruiter told me I had to write 100 words about 12 different skills I told her no, and hung up - only to send her a ranty email about how stupid the idea is.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#943

Post by lajhsdfkl »

flerchin wrote: post #748
lajhsdfkl wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Agreed. The solution is to not work at a tech company, but instead work in a tech capacity at a real company. Ha ok, this is a sure fire way to experience the worst of what the industry has to offer. >Better benefits (I'd rather have proper health coverage and a pension than a room full of toys and vaporware stock options). Tech companies have the best benefits period, what "tech" company did you apply for that didn…

Pivotal and Amazon would not meet the rate and benefits that my current real company was paying, let alone the one that just poached me for a 15% raise. She's spot on.

What company do you work for so I can point out 20 different tech companies with significantly better benefits?

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#944

Post by reaperducer »

tzakrajs wrote: post #666
nikanj wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a very strong correlation "you have to dress like an adult", and "you will be treated like an adult". Yes, a lot of adults wear sweatshirts and hoodies now. However, if you wore a shirt and tie to a high school, they would make fun of you for dressing up like your dad. We have collectively agreed on a "grown-up" attire.

The zeitgeist in tech and in culture generally is a moving target. Look at dandyism in the 19th century, no one would argue that is how grown-ups dress today.

Well, there is Connecticut.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#946

Post by jonhendry18 »

user5994461 wrote: post #663
SilasX wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! How would you recommend someone transition from a startup-y job to one of those? Anything they look for in terms of qualifications?

They're large companies recruiting pretty much in all area of technologies. If you have experience in something, you should be able to get an introduction through a recruiter or find an existing employee to reference you. The only trouble is that finance is only in the NYC area. You can't be there if you are in the valley.

"The only trouble is that finance is only in the NYC area. You can't be there if you are in the valley."

There used to be some in Chicago. Bank of America, Swiss Bank, First Chicago. Swiss Bank is now UBS and I don't know where they do their trading system development. First Chicago got absorbed by JP Morgan Chase. B of A might still do some trading development there, but I have no idea.

Back in the 90s Swiss Bank and First Chicago used NeXT for trading apps, and Swiss Bank had Symbolics machines here and there.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#947

Post by jonhendry18 »

teachrdan wrote: post #374
neurobashing wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real talk? There is nothing wrong with being in IT. Imagine if someone said "I would be concerned I'd be seen as a carpenter and not a woodworking artisan". You're a carpenter. You nail boards together to serve the business interests of the company. Even if the boards are SQL queries or ReactJS or whatever. Companies need tech. You can bring value by making everyone's jobs better with your technology - sand off those…

I think I've made myself misunderstood. I'm not intending to put down IT work or the people who do it. But from a career perspective, if I want job security and a higher salary, I think it'd be a mistake, in the long term, to be seen as IT. IT is seen as a cost center, which leads to corner-cutting and outsourcing--even when it ends up costing way more in the long run.[0] 0. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2017/05…

I think where the IT/development issues meet is that software development departments can also be outsourced, just like IT admin and support.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#948

Post by jonhendry18 »

anthuswilliams wrote: post #495
irq11 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other option is to check references, do credential checks, and simple bullshit screens during interviews, like every other professional interview. Literally every other profession has this challenge! Programmers are unique only in their seeming inability to realize that they are not unique. Accountants are not asked to solve double-entry accounting whiteboard problems. Finance professionals are not given take-hom…

This is not to take away from your point, since I agree with you, but both accountants and finance professionals have stringent licensing requirements which (in theory) could provide a baseline expectation of competence.

What about jobs like "business analyst"?

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#949

Post by jonhendry18 »

cpolis wrote: post #783
ereyes01 wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said space shuttle firmware engineer probably never had to solve a pop-quiz problem on a whiteboard. It's much more likely that he/she deliberated for weeks about a simple change with the rest of their team, and perhaps even with the person/astronaut they might kill if the change had a bad bug. Who cares if this person can't solve fizz-buzz on the whiteboard? That's probably not even a relevant skill to the job openi…

Developing software requires high level/architecture type decisions that you mention in your first paragraph. It also requires solving many small fizz-buzz size subtasks, which are necessary and demonstrate competency. A marathon runner doesn't need a stellar 100 yard dash time, but they should at least be able to jog 100 yards.

"It also requires solving many small fizz-buzz size subtasks"

If you're working on the shuttle, those small tasks generally won't be surprises. They will have been planned out well in advance.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#950

Post by jonhendry18 »

cs02rm0 wrote: post #787
monocasa wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to hate it, but have now performed enough interviews of supposedly senior devs with decades of experience. I've literally seen someone who did firmware for the space shuttle grind for 45 minutes on fizz buzz without making progress. Like, I'd they struggle for ten minutes or so, I take a step back and say "Ok, screw syntax, let's just vaguely talk about what needs to happen and mock up some pseudo code.". Even…

I avoid doing interviews, but I've suggested fizz buzz a few times to people I've worked with because it's so simple but once outside the environment of your usual IDE seems surprisingly simple to screw up. Whenever I've suggested it a usually more junior guy has scoffed at how trivial it is... I'm yet to then have one supply a complete and flawless solution. These are from people I work with, respect and happily rel…

" Why they didn't just tell me what attribute they were after I'll never know"

Number of seats?

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