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The case for hydrogen-powered cars

thedrive.com

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Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#2
Hydrogen is a dream technology, but it comes with some caveats. Right now production tends to be linked to fossile fuels, either as a result of extraction, refinement, or from electrolysis powered by coal. Presently the only for this to scale and be green will be nuclear power, and the politics are poisonous around that in every way. It’s expensive to even try to build a plant, and without the political will to deal with the waste, it’s dsngerous too.

Then there’s storage of Hydrogen, which is manageable, but not trivial. Transportation is difficult, but again possible to manage given enough drive to make it work. Fuel cells also currently require expensive catalysts such as platinum. I don’t see any of these problems close to being approached, never mind solved.

This is a well written and comprehensive article, but I don’t feel it has answers to the central issues of scaling up the Hydrogen economy. On the other hand, Hydrogen can be green, while mass produced lithium batteries are anything, but.

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#3
Stan Meyer tech has been ready for mass production for well over a decade. But it can't be released until the death of the petro-dollar slavery system.

Energy == Money == Power and currently the MIC has most of it. Decentralized production of energy is their biggest threat.

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#4
I think hydrogen cars is a technology that kills itself.

Since pure battery electrics will always have lower operating costs (if the hydrogen is produced from electricity and not oil/gas), and that a BEV is cheaper to assemble (less parts, less piping), the market for hydrogen cars is completely dependent on the price of batteries.

As batteries get cheaper, and rapid chargers get faster, the niche that hydrogen can occupy gets smaller.

The thing is, hydrogen cars are electric cars. It's possible some of them will even include a larger battery and become plug-in. So every hydrogen car sold will also benefit the development of better BEVs.

To me, this is a clear feedback loop that benefits pure BEVs. And where will BEVs be when hydrogen cars actually hit the market with significant numbers and models? What if 150kWh batteries are standard? What if 400kW charging is standard? What if the price is not much higher? These are all within reach. It's just a matter of time, and the hydrogen economy does not seem to be moving fast enough that its got time to spare.

But I fully support all subsidies and financial support for development of hydrogen fuel cells. Maybe it won't be success in cars, but it could be in other fields.

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#5

Hydrogen is a dream technology, but it comes with some caveats. Right now production tends to be linked to fossile fuels, either as a result of extraction, refinement, or from electrolysis powered by coal. Presently the only for this to scale and be green will be nuclear power, and the politics are poisonous around that in every way. It’s expensive to even try to build a plant, and without the political will to deal…

> This is a well written and comprehensive article, but I don’t feel it has answers to the central issues of scaling up the Hydrogen economy. On the other hand, Hydrogen can be green, while mass produced lithium batteries are anything, but.

This is not really fair..

Batteries can be produced cleanly just as much as hydrogen. It's just a matter of chemistry, mining practices and cost.

Furthermore, batteries is not a fuel. It is not burned. It can be recycled or reused.

But I get what you mean. All in all this is a technological arms race, and it seems to me that batteries have a pretty big head start. Though it's not over until we get a battery that is made from cheap common elements that has 2-3 times the capacity of todays batteries. In the meantime I suppose hydrogen fuel for the personal transport sector has a chance.

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#7
post #3

Stan Meyer tech has been ready for mass production for well over a decade. But it can't be released until the death of the petro-dollar slavery system. Energy == Money == Power and currently the MIC has most of it. Decentralized production of energy is their biggest threat.

That's a perpetual motion fraud.

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#8
There is no case to be made for hydrogen-powered cars. EVs are going mainstream full-power ahead. In 5 years there will be like 50 EV models on the market (already being designed right now).

Re: The case for hydrogen-powered cars

#9
post #4

I think hydrogen cars is a technology that kills itself. Since pure battery electrics will always have lower operating costs (if the hydrogen is produced from electricity and not oil/gas), and that a BEV is cheaper to assemble (less parts, less piping), the market for hydrogen cars is completely dependent on the price of batteries. As batteries get cheaper, and rapid chargers get faster, the niche that hydrogen can o…

> Since pure battery electrics will always have lower operating costs (if the hydrogen is produced from electricity and not oil/gas)

There are other options. You can producte H2 directly from sunlight. https://setis.ec.europa.eu/setis-reports/setis-magazine/fuel...

And we might run out of Lithium. Or Cobalt. Or Vanadium. I doubt that we run out of Hydrogen.

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