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Towards Scala 3

scala-lang.org

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Re: Towards Scala 3

#271

Post by pjmlp »

jupp0r wrote: post #115
pjmlp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GUI development without designer support is just like time traveling to implementing Turbo Vision and Clipper applications on MS-DOS. Never understood the mentality for designing UIs by coding instead of visually. I care for what comes in the box, and is directly supported by Visual Studio and Blend. If someone needs to lose their .NET GUI tooling productivity to embrace F#, then better wait while C# keeps getting F#…

Ever heard of the web?

Yes, it keeps trying to reach parity with native UI design tooling both on desktop and mobile OS.

Re: Towards Scala 3

#272

Post by stusmall »

eweise wrote: post #269
stusmall wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kotlin and Java 8. I started using Scala in Java 7 era and loved it. When Java was stagnating it seemed like an alternate language that targeted the JVM was the best option. Progress with the language has really picked up a lot. There is a lot that Scala has that Java doesn't, but now its not enough to make it worth it. Java is so much easier to work with on a large team.

The two languages though also have preferred libraries / frameworks. I code in Java again and the main thing that bugs me is being always in the Spring ecosystem. There is a mindset in javaland that every technology needs to be wrapped by Spring. Scala gave me the freedom to choose alternative libraries.

Oft. I agree with you there. I never enjoyed spring. I don't get the appeal. With scala I loved play framework. I know it has java support but I never tried it. It used so many scala idioms and features I'm not sure how well it would translate.

Re: Towards Scala 3

#273

Post by pjmlp »

dtech wrote: post #228
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the language is to live, I have to convince other people it's the best Aren't JVM languages interoperable - because they use the same classfile/byte code format? What does it matter if the jar is written in java or scala, as long as it is possible to use the external interface from any of these languages?

Yes and no. JVM languages can usually use other JVM libraries, but they often aren't idiomatic to that language. Scala can use JVM libraries, but it often feels wrong or cumbersome, e.g. Java is full of mutable builder classes, which I've never once encountered in "native" Scala. The other way around, in Scala you have to be careful if you want your library to be usable from other JVM languages. There's certain Scala…

You still can get into trouble with Kotlin, hence why they have an interoperability guide in Android.

https://android.github.io/kotlin-guides/interop.html

Re: Towards Scala 3

#274

Post by lmm »

Bizarro wrote: post #257
lmm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 years ago I would've had started thinking about an intermediate step in programming productivity, correctness - instead of doing Doty. Wait what? In the last post you were complaining it was too close to existing scala, now you're saying it's too big a step? Again, what is the change you're actually advocating?

You misunderstand. The intermediate step in programming productivity has nothing to do with any particular language. I would have not done "Scala 3", but something else that implements "intermediate step up in programming productivity and correctness". Probably something a bit radical, but hey development is so stagnant when it comes to way we program, it would've been worth the risk. Hint, the stuff that Chris Grang…

I find Scala is the thing that's actually advancing programming productivity - even when it comes specifically to IDEs/HCI/visual programming - whereas I expected Granger's effort to fail as it did. So I'm very glad Odersky's continuing to focus on Scala; if anything I was worried that his efforts on Dotty were detracting from maintenance and improvement of Scala proper.

Re: Towards Scala 3

#275

Post by dmix »

bitcharmer wrote: post #267
braindongle wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't use "guys" this way. This is not PC nitpicking, It's important. "People" or "folks" may not have the ring you're after, but too bad.

How is this not PC nitpicking. You really need a special kind of mindset to interpret completely harmless and generic term in this way. Please take your SJW-ism somewhere else. This is HN.

Oxford dictionary:

1.1 guys People of either sex.

Re: Towards Scala 3

#276

Post by mrucci »

amckinlay wrote: post #268

Last time I tried Scala I had to give up because I couldn't understand what a "trampoline" was, or how to use it to get multi-function tail recursion to work. Probably not Scala's fault.

I found this blog post to explain trampolines quite well: http://blog.richdougherty.com/2009/04/tail-calls-tailrec-and...

Re: Towards Scala 3

#277

Post by dtech »

swirepe wrote: post #255
dtech wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. JVM languages can usually use other JVM libraries, but they often aren't idiomatic to that language. Scala can use JVM libraries, but it often feels wrong or cumbersome, e.g. Java is full of mutable builder classes, which I've never once encountered in "native" Scala. The other way around, in Scala you have to be careful if you want your library to be usable from other JVM languages. There's certain Scala…

What Scala features can't you use?

implicits mainly, these are objects looked up by the compiler for various purposes e.g. Typeclasses, or how to serialize a specific object to JSON.

The Scala 2.8-2.12 collection library was impossible to call from Java, one of the reasons for an upcoming redesign in 2.13.

Re: Towards Scala 3

#278

Post by didibus »

DandyDev wrote: post #174

It's amazing how many people in this thread justify their own language choices by making negative, sweeping statements about another language (Scala in this case) that is successfully used by people other than themselves. Yes, some people who previously used Scala, now use Kotlin. And some people who would've used Scala if Kotlin didn't exist, use Kotlin. Same probably goes for Rust. But there is a big enough market…

Divide and conquer while we rule above the average, enjoying our parenthesis and the riches they bring us.

;)

Re: Towards Scala 3

#279

Post by sandGorgon »

RBerenguel wrote: post #262
sandGorgon wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand performance difference, but I have not generally seen a difference in building custom pipelines and ensembles .. although I grant I'm not at your scale yet. What kind of specific pipelines did you have trouble in pyspark ?

Although we decided to start using Scala specifically because PySpark was not as performant (2.0 is not so far ago), a reasonable use case I keep always in mind is aggregation (and in general any API which is still not solid/experimental/under work). Python bindings are always the last to be available (because all groundwork is being done in Scala). We have a relatively large scale process that takes advantage of cus…

I will stay away from veering into a statically typed vs dynamically typed conversation here ;)

But I'm very excited about pyspark 2.3 UDF bringing grouped map . It will be interesting to hear your views on that https://databricks.com/blog/2017/10/30/introducing-vectorize...

Re: Towards Scala 3

#280

Post by ionforce »

benjaminjackman wrote: post #223
lmm wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that a language lives or dies by its ecosystem - particularly when it comes to a language like Scala that's in a tightly symbiotic relationship with its IDEs (the next time someone tries to sell you a "visual programming language", look at Scala for a language that makes really effective use of the GUI for programming without compromising the things that make textual programming languages good - see e.…

As a fellow emigrant of `Scala is the best island` forced off for pragmatic reasons. I've been around scala long enough to see the rise and fall of multiple expeditions into the bowels of the OSGI eclipse cave of horrors (Sean McDirmid / Miles Sabin etc). Before switching horses and settling in Intellij for several years. So I understand where you are coming from. I've since jumped ship again to vscode (along with ty…

Could you expand on what this all is? I'm not familiar with what benefits an LSP provides. What is the world like before and after LSP support?
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