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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#261

Post by mtve »

Rjevski wrote: post #75

RCS is shit. It’s a good idea in theory, but in practice it’s a crappy, over-engineered clone of iMessage or WhatsApp without any of the good parts like end to end encryption or spam protections. It relies on the carriers to keep it functional and we all know this won’t end well... given the robocall and SMS spam situation do you really think RCS will be any different? But at least robocalls and SMS spam cant carry a…

This is absolutely true.

And as has been said in other threads, Google Talk was the only sane strategy for Google and it was lost.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#262

Post by sunstone »

rm999 wrote: post #185
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

Google dominated non-SMS chat in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I don't think they realized how insanely valuable that was - they were basically sitting on the future of communication. All they had to do was sit back and let network effects build their monopoly (with some more tech build-out and straightforward marketing in international markets). Instead, they myopically saw Facebook as a threat and started one of the…

Sometimes doing nothing is the best strategy but it's hard to get promoted that way.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#263

Post by stevenwoo »

what_ever wrote: post #241
stevenwoo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC WeChat started from the ground up with a custom protocol designed for compatibility/efficiency with low bandwidth mobile networks for maximum reach, IMHO a great example of thinking outside the box of "let's use XMPP since it works".

Just curious, who else is using that protocol?

Don't think anyone is, I thought there was a hacker news story on it but I could not find it with search, sorry.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#264

Post by yiyus »

hartator wrote: post #217
elvirs wrote: post #94

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition ph…

Don’t forget Google Wave.

Everybody forgot Google Wave.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#265

Post by ralphm »

izacus wrote: post #227
PedroBatista wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "not a good" you mean an open protocol not controlled by Google?

No, by "not a good" he probably means that it's not well suited for low battery consumption expected from a mobile device. Don't push your words on other people :(

The battery argument is just misinformed. The real reason Google dropped XMPP was not a technical one. Yes, Google claimed it was not "cloud ready" at that GoogleIO. The same one where they announced Google Cloud Messaging, based on, wait for it, XMPP.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#266

Post by ar0 »

nostromo wrote: post #250
sorenjan wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

> but nobody around here uses SMS or MMS for person to person contact Where are you located? Mac/iOS Messages and/or SMS is my primary way of talking with friends and family. That seems pretty normal for my age range 25-45 and location (Seattle).

I think it depends a lot on the country you are in. In many European countries, the SMS is practically dead: in Germany or Switzerland it's all WhatsApp these days, with a bit of Telegram or Signal mixed in. Given this, I was surprised to discover how many people are still sending SMS here in Canada.

I think it has a lot do with mobile carrier pricing: here in Canada, mobile fees are enormously expensive, but SMS are almost always included for free. In Germany/Switzerland, many people use prepaid cards where SMS are (still) charged per message.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#267

Post by X-Istence »

nostromo wrote: post #250
sorenjan wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google messaging must have some of the worst project managers in the industry. Not only did they let their lead disappear, when they decided to start competing with Facebook and WhatsApp they released Allo! A crappy MVP in a crowded market hugely dependent on the network effect. And now they've decided to involve the carriers, using a technology that's not made to be cross platform but instead be dependent on phones.…

> but nobody around here uses SMS or MMS for person to person contact Where are you located? Mac/iOS Messages and/or SMS is my primary way of talking with friends and family. That seems pretty normal for my age range 25-45 and location (Seattle).

Head on over to Europe, and:

> Ik steur je wel even een appje

(I'll send you an message on WhatsApp)

is the norm in The Netherlands. My entire family, extended family, and everyone around them is all on WhatsApp. While I communicate with iMessage/SMS with friends in the US, that's not the case outside of the US. Everyone seems to have WhatsApp, most people don't use Google hangouts or other services alongside that, let alone SMS.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#268

Post by AnssiH »

infonull wrote: post #167
exabrial wrote: post #87

The carriers are idiots. It's where innovation goes to die. We had to pull them kicking and screaming into the smart phone and data era. (Remember When AT&T sent a paper copy of every image you downloaded on your iPhone in a bill?) Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all . It's insecure, slow, unreliable,…

Agreed, SMS needs to stop being supported by handset vendors so people stops relying on it as the universal text platform. When a communication system silently drops messages, this is unacceptable. But people are ok with it because they're accustomed to it being shit. The sender wonders why you never responded, and you are unaware they contacted you. Or the sender asks if you want to meet for lunch, and you get it 8…

> When a communication system silently drops messages, this is unacceptable. But people are ok with it because they're accustomed to it being shit.

Or they are OK with it because they have never had their SMS messages dropped, like me (that I know of).

At least here (Finland) SMS is used for a lot of stuff like bank transfer verification and postal package pickup notifications, having many dropped messages would seemingly make it unsuitable for those purposes.

Of course, MMS is a completely different story and I've seen issues left and right on various phones and carriers. I don't think anybody really even uses MMS group chats here.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#269

Post by wetpaws »

sunstone wrote: post #262
rm999 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google dominated non-SMS chat in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I don't think they realized how insanely valuable that was - they were basically sitting on the future of communication. All they had to do was sit back and let network effects build their monopoly (with some more tech build-out and straightforward marketing in international markets). Instead, they myopically saw Facebook as a threat and started one of the…

Sometimes doing nothing is the best strategy but it's hard to get promoted that way.

Totally agree. This is something a lot of people miss.

IT culture in general and Google especially puts too much pressure on engineers to re-invent the wheel to get better visibility and promotions.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#270

Post by Anderkent »

defertoreptar wrote: post #256
scrooched_moose wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unreliable Really? It's the only messaging format that works without a data connection and is an absolute godsend when I'm out camping, rural biking, or at large sporting events and the towers are absolutely swamped. I'm in a situation at least once a month where the only reliable communication method is SMS.

Dropped SMS messages, particularly between Android and and iPhones, have caused some catastrophes at my work. I no longer trust them enough to use them to communicate with staff.

Isn't that usually because iMessage doesn't actually send SMS if it thinks it can send something else?
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