No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE” • Hacker News Board

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#31

Post by KirinDave » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

ec109685 wrote: post #23

jupp0r wrote: post #12

> 5G's main application around the world will be more capacity, a good thing for telcos This is important for consumers. When did you last get 100Mbit+ speeds with 4G? In real world scenarios, the number of people in a cell (due to limited spectrum bandwidth) limits 4G speeds, not protocol maximums. My understanding of 5G is that bandwidth can be used much more efficiently (both by being able to allocate less in idle…

Telecoms have the ability today to add more capacity by increasing tower density.

They have the capability, but this intersects with local building codes, zoning laws, and safety standards. It also carries increased costs over time.

What's being said here is, "We don't foresee any problems with having our current level of capacity provisioning, and we're fine with the level of service we provide."

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#32

Post by stagger87 » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

I was a little disappointed after looking at the NR spec, it looks like 5G is mostly a sample rate multiplier on the 30.72MHz clock. It's still OFDM 8x8 MIMO. I'm sure there is some other additions that take advantage/optimize that additional bandwidth, but it doesn't have the same excitement as going from CDMA to OFDM did.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#33

Post by awill » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

Innovation is great. But with more carriers throttling after a few GBs, there's no customer value yet. What's the value in getting 1Gbs when my plan throttles after 5GB. That's 40 seconds before I'd be throttled for the rest of the month.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#34

Post by rajeevk » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

> IoT will rarely require speeds more than 100's of megabits. Most actually is kilobits.

This reminds me this famous quote by Bill Gates: "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody"

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#35

Post by mdorazio » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

ec109685 wrote: post #23

jupp0r wrote: post #12

> 5G's main application around the world will be more capacity, a good thing for telcos This is important for consumers. When did you last get 100Mbit+ speeds with 4G? In real world scenarios, the number of people in a cell (due to limited spectrum bandwidth) limits 4G speeds, not protocol maximums. My understanding of 5G is that bandwidth can be used much more efficiently (both by being able to allocate less in idle…

Telecoms have the ability today to add more capacity by increasing tower density.

In many cases it's not that simple. Local governments are often in control of permitting for cell tower sites. The telcos can't just plop down new towers wherever they want and call it a day.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#36

Post by joezydeco » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #18

joezydeco wrote: post #2

5G's main application around the world will be more capacity, a good thing for telcos Or companies that want to break the residential broadband monopoly in a local area. Personally, I'm counting on TMO to kick Comcast's ass in my town. 5G would be a complete success if that happens.

I'm counting on TMO to kick Comcast's ass in my town Is Comcast really that bad? In my admittedly European experience all the service providers are (dis)functional and greedy pretty much to the same degree, none of them are good guys.

Comcast is the only broadband provider in my town that can deliver a service greater than 2 mbit/sec.

AT&T has U-Verse DSLAMS in some corners, but gave up on covering the entire town and the copper network is old and crumbling. There is zero hope of any kind of fiber service showing up.

In my personal experience Comcast's service isn't bad, but their rates are tied to the fact that there is no competition. My belief is that prices would drop about 50% and speeds would jump up 20% if another company could get into the space.

And that's just for IP service. Video service is another story altogether. TMO's purchase of Layer3 gives me some hope that maybe there will be a decent streaming service they will bundle with it.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#37

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

vinylkey wrote: post #20

Cshelton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lower speed on 4G is mostly due to the number of devices on it. 5G will be no different in that way. At first, the few people with 5G devices and networks will have very fast speeds (mostly), but once everyone in 4G moves to 5G, we’re back to how it is today. I’m also curious what the effect of all the WiFi networks will have in regards to interference with 5G bands.

> but once everyone in 4G moves to 5G, we’re back to how it is today. Would there be a benefit to split 50:50 between 4G and 5G?

[deleted]

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#38

Post by tedsanders » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

rajeevk wrote: post #34

> IoT will rarely require speeds more than 100's of megabits. Most actually is kilobits. This reminds me this famous quote by Bill Gates: "640 kB ought to be enough for anybody"

Bill Gates says he never said this. There is no record he ever said this. And even if he did say it, he almost certainly did not mean it literally.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/09/08/640k-enough/

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/2863/did-bill-g...

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#39

Post by a_imho » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #25

a_imho wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm counting on TMO to kick Comcast's ass in my town Is Comcast really that bad? In my admittedly European experience all the service providers are (dis)functional and greedy pretty much to the same degree, none of them are good guys.

Comcast and Countrywide were in the running for the Consumerists 2008 worst company of the year. Countrywide won but had to help nuke the economy. Comcast had a real shot at winning for being such a malignant organization. The rebrand to Xfinity is a joke.

Why? Are they significantly more hated than any big co? Like Uber and Facebook received quite a lot of bad press lately. Is this just perception or are they really that bad/evil?

TMO (yeah Austria, not US but still) were bragging about not hashing passwords on twitter just a couple of weeks ago. Not exactly professional.

Re: No “Material Difference Between 5G and LTE”

#40

Post by gruez » Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

Cshelton wrote: post #13

jupp0r wrote: post #12

> 5G's main application around the world will be more capacity, a good thing for telcos This is important for consumers. When did you last get 100Mbit+ speeds with 4G? In real world scenarios, the number of people in a cell (due to limited spectrum bandwidth) limits 4G speeds, not protocol maximums. My understanding of 5G is that bandwidth can be used much more efficiently (both by being able to allocate less in idle…

The lower speed on 4G is mostly due to the number of devices on it. 5G will be no different in that way. At first, the few people with 5G devices and networks will have very fast speeds (mostly), but once everyone in 4G moves to 5G, we’re back to how it is today. I’m also curious what the effect of all the WiFi networks will have in regards to interference with 5G bands.

>once everyone in 4G moves to 5G, we’re back to how it is today.

is that why some budget MVNOs only offer 2g/3g access when their parent network has lte?